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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Picatinny

I was just wondering this myself. You can get a 100mm Picatinny swat rail for $8 on Amazon!
 
When I get my EPIC, I'll do some testing. I have a few, uh, NATO type parts laying around............

I think the EPIC would look good with an Eotech Holographic RED dot sight!!

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I ordered an $8 picatinny rail off amazon just to see how it worked. I overlooked one major element in the equation - the size of the holes in the picatinny rail. 1/4-20s won't fit through the one I ordered. Everything else would have worked fine, the holes even lined up with the top mount.
 
I've tried a bunch of options. They are all drilled for different spacing and smaller thread size. You'll have to be good enough with a drill press to get holes where you need them. It's harder then you'd think.
 
Michael Winokur said:
I've tried a bunch of options. They are all drilled for different spacing and smaller thread size. You'll have to be good enough with a drill press to get holes where you need them. It's harder then you'd think.
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I thoroughly presumed the red spacing on the holes would not apply, and it looks like the slots are different to std NATO but no issues with clamping RED parts onto Picatinny rail right? seems to be compatible and clamps tight, slides easy?
 
Check out the new optics for my rifle!

Check out the new optics for my rifle!

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Why? because I can hehehehe...

anyways, I have two different picatinny rails that i've adopted for the epic. One is the magpul you see attached to the front of the wooden camera top handel. that one is made of polymer but the holes doesnt line up so i drilled new ones hehe.

the other two rails you see is a UTG mount, made of metal, and couple holes line up, you just have to drill a slightly bigger hole for the 1/4-20s to fit. you can see in the picture the shingy part is where I drilled. It's very sturdy, strong, and i'm very confident in it that I have no problem using it with the handle and letting it take the weight of the camera with accessories.
 

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If I made some Picatanny rails with big holes for 1/4"-20 would you guys go for it? I guarantee they won't be $8, but they also won't be $800. I'm thinking somewhere in between ;-}
 
Sure!

Maybe offer a range of lengths?

$100 per rail is a lot!

M
 
If you guys are looking for affordable rail options, check with a gunsmith. They can at least help guide you to which ones will be the easiest to modify, and maybe drill them for you. A machine shop would be your next bet, but they may not be familiar with the rails themselves.

While I'm usually on RED's side when it comes to accessory pricing, there's a few things in their catalog that really boggle the mind -- the $100 piece of rail is one of those things. When I asked someone at RED about that, they gave me the canned response "it's machined out of aircraft aluminum... blah, blah....". I just let it go. The reality of it is, so are any other quality NATO/Picatinny/STANAG rails on the market and most are available for under $12 in similar length. In the end, I don't think RED is gouging us on price, but it's just the economics of it all. The machines cost X and they can mill Y pieces in a day. Divide it up and you get your component cost. If you want cheaper, you contract it out to someone that can do massive quantities with a fast turn-around, typically in China, Singapore, etc.. Production quantity is where the savings are at... As many cameras as RED is selling, it pales in comparison to the number of AR-15's out there getting equipped with these rail components. On the other hand, we can benefit from the rail components and low prices. We can use a wide variety of handles, bipods and other clamping accessories with our cameras, many of which are super cheap for what they are.

So far my biggest complaint from the camera accessory guys who are trying to jump onto the NATO rail bandwagon, they don't fully understand what they're designing for. Not capitalizing on using the notches or other aspects of the rails just yet. Not that I want to pick on Wooden Camera, but his "safety" NATO rail is a good example here. It has a thick "base" to it and doesn't follow the overall rail profile. The safety catches are an interesting thought, but would be unnecessary if the sensitive accessories or utility mounts would have catches integrated into the clamps, where they belong.
 
Yes...but with proper mounts the accessories don't just slide on and you lose the cool factor. :D

I guess it's saves time just sliding things on as well. I do love me some safety nato.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
Yes...but with proper mounts the accessories don't just slide on and you lose the cool factor. :D
Click to expand...

With proper mounts they slide just fine and only when you want them to (your hand is on it and making it happen). That's what these rails are designed for super-quick, smooth and quiet sliding of accessories on and off.

As for Wooden Camera's safety rail, it's a good product and they are filling an obvious need. I'm just saying that most sensitive firearm equipment on the market that clamps to these rails, primarily the "good stuff", has additional catch levers or other devices so they don't slip or slide unless you want them to.
 
One of the issues that I'm encountering is that the DSMC top mounts have a swat rail-type mount built in but its smooth, without the "grooves" of the bolt-on ones. Pieces that mount on Picatinny rails that I have bought online have a rod that runs across the bottom as part of the clamp. This sits in the rail groove and provides a measure of security because it cant easily slide left or right. Cool. However these pieces do not mount on the DSMC top mount. Wooden camera pieces like their Nato clamp DO fit on the smooth rail. So that's a must for me.
 
Thanks Jeff Garton. This is the exact problem that Jeff Kilgroe gave the answer to. Basically the answer is for a gear manufacturer to make a clamp that utilizes the grooves. I will look into this further this week, but we're pretty busy as is it, so don't hold your breath. If we come up with something, I'll post a prototype on this thread.
 
Yeah, not sure what's up with the RED Top Mount where it doesn't have the notches in the rail section. It's not compliant with the rail spec when it does not. My assumption here is that the notches were omitted to save on machine time/cost and it still fits their handle and other clamping accessories. But does render it less compatible with everything else on the market. What many tactical accessories do is incorporate a spring mechanism that presses into the open grooves/notches.. Many of them work like a clothes pin or spring clamp design, simply push down and it lifts the opposite end out of the notch. This way, you can quickly push and slide your accessory where you need it. If you let go it locks where it's at. Keep them just loose enough to slide them if needed or give them a final tightening turn on a kip lever or similar if you want to lock them down for good.

George Tsai said:
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I still love this.. You can shoot while you shoot! I probably would've rigged up my AR the same way, but was lacking a few bits and pieces... ;)
 
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