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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Per Leader Ted's request

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Tail Ends

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Yesterday at NAB, I complained to Ted S about many of our problems with Red, and a few not yet discussed. Ted told me that he had heard many of these complaints before, but asked that I put them in a memo to him. Here it is:
RED IS PUTTING ITS EFFORTS INTO DEVELOPMENT AT THE EXPENSE OF OPERATIONS. Red is getting giddy over all the publicity it is receiving. As a result of all this attention, Red is creating more products to get even more attention and market share while not paying attention to the less glamorous, but just as important, job of getting product out the door.

RED NEEDS AN OPERATIONS MANAGER. If Red has an operations manager, he needs a bigger budget, needs to be replaced or needs assistance. Red can't keep creating new products and not have a method of getting them out the door in an orderly manner. The staff can't be more nice than they are, but in their voice on can hear frustration. One person who has little knowledge of the concept of debits and credits should not be preparing invoices for 300 accounts (I was told). The invoices I've received have been patiently wrong on their face, forgetting duplications of line items. Red is working on its sixth variation of billing for me. One time there were four right handles but the Production Packages I ordered were missing. One time I got part of my credit, but not the balance. My account rep never reviewed the paperwork to notice. The next try omitted all credits. Then I received three invoices with a token credit on one and nothing on the other two and it goes on and on.

ORDERS MUST BE FILLED IN A MORE EQUITABLE manner. I am buying multiple camera. My orders came up over a month ago. I'm told that because I'm ordering so much material, Red has decided to fulfill smaller orders after mine just to get them out the door. I've been ready to pay now for 30+ days. As of this moment, I don't have the slightest idea of when my order (of the items being produced) will be organized with the proper paperwork. This is not the way to run a business.

GIVE SPECIFICATIONS. I've been asking for the specifications of the 300mm and 18-85mm now for weeks. It is the height of arrogance for Red people to tell me that I should look harder in the RedUser blogs to find this information. The camera has specifications. The lenses don't. In fact, we're told that everything is subject to change.

IT'S OK TO ADJUST PRICES IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE QUALITY. When i was told by my account rep that the body was changed from milled to cast, it was presented to me as an improvement. Anyone who knows squat about manufacturing knows that such a change is a sign of trouble. The one area that the US holds a lead in the world is our ability to create high quality milled products due not only to skilled labor, but the capital intensive equipment needed to do such work in long runs. The value of the dollar has gone down 20-25%+ since the original $17,500 price was quoted. As long as the quality is there, I don't think any serious user would object to a price increase. Holding onto to an unreasonable promise at the expense of quality and miserable operations is a poor business decision.

To end on a positive note, the candor from people like Jarred (when he's not hyping) and yourself when quizzed about how the Red lenses hold up against cinema quality glass yesterday at NAB go to underscore all what is right with Red.

Please understand that all this is given to management with the hopes that these relative minor changes in policy will be considered.

Tail Ends
 
Tail Ends,

I was there yesterday, I believe you have put together a positive statement and hope Red takes time out to take in your comments.

My camera is in the next round and hope these operational issues are resolved or somewhat improved.

Red has definately proved to the industry they are fullfilling what they promised.

Harnz
 
Yesterday at NAB, I complained to Ted S about many of our problems with Red, and a few not yet discussed. Ted told me that he had heard many of these complaints before, but asked that I put them in a memo to him. Here it is:
RED IS PUTTING ITS EFFORTS INTO DEVELOPMENT AT THE EXPENSE OF OPERATIONS. Red is getting giddy over all the publicity it is receiving. As a result of all this attention, Red is creating more products to get even more attention and market share while not paying attention to the less glamorous, but just as important, job of getting product out the door.

RED NEEDS AN OPERATIONS MANAGER. If Red has an operations manager, he needs a bigger budget, needs to be replaced or needs assistance. Red can't keep creating new products and not have a method of getting them out the door in an orderly manner. The staff can't be more nice than they are, but in their voice on can hear frustration. One person who has little knowledge of the concept of debits and credits should not be preparing invoices for 300 accounts (I was told). The invoices I've received have been patiently wrong on their face, forgetting duplications of line items. Red is working on its sixth variation of billing for me. One time there were four right handles but the Production Packages I ordered were missing. One time I got part of my credit, but not the balance. My account rep never reviewed the paperwork to notice. The next try omitted all credits. Then I received three invoices with a token credit on one and nothing on the other two and it goes on and on.

ORDERS MUST BE FILLED IN A MORE EQUITABLE manner. I am buying multiple camera. My orders came up over a month ago. I'm told that because I'm ordering so much material, Red has decided to fulfill smaller orders after mine just to get them out the door. I've been ready to pay now for 30+ days. As of this moment, I don't have the slightest idea of when my order (of the items being produced) will be organized with the proper paperwork. This is not the way to run a business.

GIVE SPECIFICATIONS. I've been asking for the specifications of the 300mm and 18-85mm now for weeks. It is the height of arrogance for Red people to tell me that I should look harder in the RedUser blogs to find this information. The camera has specifications. The lenses don't. In fact, we're told that everything is subject to change.

IT'S OK TO ADJUST PRICES IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE QUALITY. When i was told by my account rep that the body was changed from milled to cast, it was presented to me as an improvement. Anyone who knows squat about manufacturing knows that such a change is a sign of trouble. The one area that the US holds a lead in the world is our ability to create high quality milled products due not only to skilled labor, but the capital intensive equipment needed to do such work in long runs. The value of the dollar has gone down 20-25%+ since the original $17,500 price was quoted. As long as the quality is there, I don't think any serious user would object to a price increase. Holding onto to an unreasonable promise at the expense of quality and miserable operations is a poor business decision.

To end on a positive note, the candor from people like Jarred (when he's not hyping) and yourself when quizzed about how the Red lenses hold up against cinema quality glass yesterday at NAB go to underscore all what is right with Red.

Please understand that all this is given to management with the hopes that these relative minor changes in policy will be considered.

Tail Ends

Thanks for your note. I appreciate all you have said. But until you actually build a business from a garage (this is my second) it is easy to second guess what is happening... and on a public forum it is more than a bit irritating.

Without an inside view of our business, it is virtually impossible to guess what we have or haven't attempted to do, who we have hired, fired and are looking for.

We acknowledge our weaknesses and are working on many operational aspects of RED. That seems very obvious. Even to me.

Please remember two thoughts... this company is 27 months old. And life (business) is easy to understand and difficult to execute.

You have the easy to understand part down pat. "You need an Operations guy. Go hire one". Really? I never thought of that. Silly me...

Sorry to be so blunt, but business builders behind a keyboard irritate me no end. Try it yourself and let me know how you do...

Just so we know, since you made this a public thought, your background of business building? I think that is only fair to ask.

BTW, it sounds like Ted asked you to send him a memo, not post on reduser... so I wouldn't consider this "per Ted's request".

Let the "Jannard goes nuts" posts begin now... please.

Jim
 
I love Iridium.

=)

There once was a time that the Earth was flat.

Here are some True quotes.
"That guys gonna what???

They are never going to do that. They are just not going to come out with it.
If they did SONY or Panasonic would just buy them out.
It would make any and all other cameras obsolete.
Epically the high end cameras. The major camera companies will buy it out trust me.

Thats bullshit, its just vaperware, dont buy into that Luis.
Its not true its just a gimmick we see these at NAB every few years.

I'll believe it when I see it.

35MM quality??? HELL NO !

4K
3K
2K
1080
720
640
?
No they cant do that its just not possible
for $17,000.00 absolutely no way.

It must be a disposable camera. Its just not true.

OHHHHH, You see they want $1,000.00 up front as a retainer to be in line.
What hes really doing is bullshit they are just making a ton of money from the interest, they are never going to make it. They dont even have capital for the R&D to make the camera.

Who the hell is RED? Who is making the camera whos the actual company?
Oakley? They make sun glasses. Give me a break.

Don't believe that crap its never going to come out."


...

And then I saw Graeme Nattress was on the RED team and thats all it took for me to know.
Its on.


In a matter of a few years right before my eyes I got to see RED.


SO MY QUESTION IS
Where is that footage of the making of the RED camera.
I seen you guys running around with a JVC camera at every NAB at FCP User Group LA and who knows where else.


Where is the making of the RED?
 
LOL

Jannard is nuts. Really out of his mind! Most of all for making this weird RED idea sitiing on my table as I'm posting 4k images that keys like nothing else on a 3k$ computer. Who knows what I'll do with all that stuff... :)

Really.

RED is still a tool of choice, and I rather don't regret mine in that respect and I think it's fabtastic that they develop the system further, who'd have done that? The cam is working, right? The features are there. Let's sit back and cash in (whch I'm sure they'll do, too). But the focus on development of impossible specs and bettering them is actually a main selling point, to me...
 
To assume Jim & Team do not know how to allocate resources or delegate properly, simply does not make sense, given that they've brought a complex, groundbreaking product from nothing to market in 2 years. Make sense? They couldn't have gotten this far without those skills.

This is not to say that your issues are non-existent. I'm sure they're very frustrating.

I would say that the difficulties that they are experiencing are simply unavoidable with a start-up. It's just the nature of the beast. I'm sure Red would be the last people to suggest that you just roll over and accept it as is, but it truly is going to be one of those things...

Now if it's the same deal in 6 months...then maybe a talk is in order.
 
"Without a product, there is no company. Without operations, there is no longevity. To expect a perfect business in 27 months is lunacy".

If it gives you any comfort, Oakley has been in business 33 years.

Jim
 
A little respect...

A little respect...

Dear Tail Ends:

As a business builder myself (certainly not at the same level as Mr. Jannard but on my 3rd, started this one 9 years ago now grosses $12-$16 Million per year and profitable for the last six years) I really cannot even believe you posted that memo to Ted/Red on the Red User public forum. (Dear God I hope Ted didn't really tell you to post this discussion publicly). Forget about the etiquette of business, your post just simply wasn't kind. Red "reserves the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude" and I think its' a testament to Mr. Jannard's professionalism that he didn't ask you to return all of your equipment immediately for a full refund (No soup for you, one year style). Heaven knows he doesn't need your money and the line is out the door for your gear.

I think what bothers me most is the comment about the person in accounting not knowing the difference between credits and debits, that's just plain hurtful and could really cause a lot of undue distress for them on such a public forum. Perhaps you could issue a public apology for that one at least?

I do agree with you that specifications could be presented in greater detail and accuracy in the web store and on Red.com but when there are 500 priorities on the "MASTER" list and people are ordering stuff site unseen and specifications unread much faster than you can build it, why on earth prioritize product sheets or web content.

What RED has accomplished is nothing short of remarkable. The marketing and showmanship at NAB alone is worthy of the record books. Have you ever seen people stand in line for 3 hours at ANY booth at ANY convention ever?

Sure compromises are going to have to be made, corners cut, timelines modified but you can rest assured that Mr. Jannard isn't happy about it, it's just business. Remember when Steve Jobs put off Leopard to finish the iPhone? What if Scarlet is the Red's iPhone? Sure it seems logical to focus on the core product, to focus on flawless customer service, but in the real world, it just doesn't work that way, you have to keep new product in the pipeline, you have to maintain the hype once your lucky enough to capture it.

As a final note, I'll tell ya what...

I've been hemmin' and hawin' about whether to take delivery on my Red this month (pre-ordered at NAB last year) but your post put me over the edge. I'm going to bet on Red like I did on Photoshop at Seybold back in the early 90's (I have an old floppy, version 1.06 serial #837 i think) and like I bet on Apple with the Mac IIfx. I have a feeling Red is going to change the world and I want in on the ground floor.

There's an old proverb that says something along the lines of "If the barn is clean, the farmer is in trouble, but if there's sh*! all over the floor, get ready for a big harvest!". The fact that everyone over there is so busy (when the rest of the economy is sucking wind) is actually a GREAT sign for me.

-shooter
 
I think we as customers just need to initiate a feedback loop. NOT ON A PUBLIC forum. So many people get their cameras and all the issues of ordering and delivery are forgotten. I can only guess at the number of accounting systems, and fulfillment strategies Red has gone through. We need to give them some feedback in the form of facts, and not drama. Keep this stuff in emails, not on Reduser.

I fully intend on telling Red what worked and what didn't after I get my camera. But that's a conversation between me and someone at Red, not this forum.

They are trying really hard.
 
I can understand some of the frustrations, but it's been said literally hundreds of times in the past year by Red employees that this is a new business and they're flying by the seat of their pants. They repeatedly warn us that everything is changing rapidly and they're doing their best to ramp up. Jim has said that if you prefer a stable environment with no risks and no changes, then Red is probably not for you.

Having gone from an idea to execution in two years for a camera that does the equivalent of cameras 10x its price is nothing short of amazing. Not to mention their codec that allows us to write to CF cards and edit on a standard Mac. I still don't understand how they pulled it all off in this amount of time. I swear this camera sitting next to me has alien technology inside. (This could explain why they had a deal with Apple - aliens use Macs)
 
I think it's important for all of us to keep things in perspective. Jim is absolutely right to refer to the 27 months of being in business, developing products that take much larger and long-established organizations much longer to release (and then at much higher prices). The fact that an affordable 4K camera system is within our grasp is still unbelievable, not to mention the very good lenses at great prices.

Think of the volume we are talking about. How many camera systems at this level are being delivered by other companies, who are much much larger than Red?

I am Red One #508, and I've been through the process Tail Ends is commenting on. I know firsthand what he is talking about, every bit. But there is an overriding question: is it better to go through these issues to get our Red One's soon, or would it have been better to wait another year or two or more for Red to get its fulfillment processes fully sorted out? For me that answer is absolutely clear - the Red One system is worth whatever inconvenience there has been to get it, and the earlier the better.

It has taken a lot of courage on the part of Jim and Red to do things this way. I think the majority of Red One early adopters would agree with me that Jim has made the correct balance between speed and having the business processes sorted out.

I have built a (small) business from the ground up; I know how hard it is to deal with all the details in the beginning. I am also a Red customer, and we all want everything right now. Let's keep it in perspective. I know it's tough. But Red is going all out to make our dreams of image capture come true - let's meet them halfway. It's worth it.

Thank you Jim and Red - I hope you feel it's worth it as well.

Matthew Verkler
Cut On The Action
 
somthing positive: NOTHING went wrong with my payment and shipping of the camera en acc. Everything by the ,,book,,! So now i go back to my RED ONE voor test shooting!!

Thank you Travis!!

with kind regards
Robert
 
My Red experience has been very positive.

And I want to think that Tail Ends meant well with his post, that he meant to be constructive. But it should've been an actual memo TO TED, instead of a public post. Then it would've been constructive.

I must say, that in every interaction I have had with Red, they have exhibited a top-notch customer service attitude. They have been great to work with.

And the product, well, it speaks for itself. Kick-ass.
 
Tail Ends - you simply don't have to buy a RED, if you aren't happy with the provider. There are plenty of people happy to take your place. If I was Jim, I for sure would go ballistic - because I know all these backseat drivers talk. I have myself run companies (with up to 30 employees) - and there is always a lot of bright people and faultfinders, with no experience at all, who can (exactly) point out all the mistakes and errors you have done.

Of course RED has it's faults, as every company. What I think RED have which is quite unique (beside the camera) is the willingness to listen and directly discuss all matters with their customers on this forum. A new and winning concept! Compare with Canon and Sony for example.

But to discuss in detail how RED should run their business, that's another thing. Build your own company instead.
 
IT'S OK TO ADJUST PRICES IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE QUALITY. When i was told by my account rep that the body was changed from milled to cast, it was presented to me as an improvement. Anyone who knows squat about manufacturing knows that such a change is a sign of trouble. The one area that the US holds a lead in the world is our ability to create high quality milled products due not only to skilled labor, but the capital intensive equipment needed to do such work in long runs.

The cast body is an improvement. The cast body protects the price point, the manufacturing targets and provides more than enough strength for the accessories to mount to. It is both cheaper and faster to manufacture this camera with a cast body than with a CNC body. The load on the body of the Red One can be easily absorbed with a cast part. A CNC body would take 1.5 days to make (my minimum estimate) versus a cast body which could take 1.5 to 2.5 hours to make (Post Tooling). The CNC body was a prototype necessary to determine the final form of the body. I'm sure RED never had any intention of shipping CNC camera bodies. You could not meet the target of 700 cameras per month with that requirement, the camera would cost six figures.

The only area in the global economy where the US currently leads is Market-Centric Innovation. RED is not playing a shell-game here. The camera you will unpack will reflect the latest innovations in manufacturing, product development and market research and it will meet your needs with aggressive and exponentially increasing efficiency. Why? Because the hardware was designed intentionally to be ahead of the software development curve that's necessary for it to operate. The operational side of the business will improve greatly in a matter of weeks as the system evolves to a state of equilibrium.
 
Let's not forget that we are buying direct from the manufacturer, which is a large part of what makes the camera affordable. If you can't take the glitches in the ordering process, then you probably shouldn't be buying this camera and looking at other options with full-blown distribution channels (and the pricing that goes with it).
 
Let's not forget that we are buying direct from the manufacturer, which is a large part of what makes the camera affordable. If you can't take the glitches in the ordering process, then you probably shouldn't be buying this camera and looking at other options with full-blown distribution channels (and the pricing that goes with it).

Actually Steven-Marc and I had a harder time with french custom than anything else:meh:

Emmanuel
 
Management is about doing things right. Leadership is about doing the right things.

I'm thrilled that the RED team wants to hear what we think are the "right things", but I believe we need to respect that they will figure out how to "do things right".

Committees are great for feedback, but lousy for execution.

I trust the RED team to execute.
 
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