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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

optitron or wait for the redmote pro?

OptiTek said:
I love to play, but not with fire:thumbsup: too old for that. I will ask Jarred next time I see him and we'll see what he says...
Click to expand...

You're talking to precisely the wrong man about 'being too old' and 'playing with fire' :-)

576341_215292148580770_1291810619_n.jpg


Mike
 
Haha I knew the "f" word would ruffle your feathers Mike :)
The "old" was icing on the cake...
 
Using Red's Canon mount would obviously be a huge plus, as it would allow to pass the lens info to the camera, use the touchscreen to change and visualize f-stops, still use autofocus when you want to instead of the follow focus... Plus, it would avoid having to buy another mount, and having to plug a cable + Rx to it.
Thing is... Will Red give out enough info to enable third party manufacturers to access these features without having to reverse engineer every bit of it and risk legal / warranty issues ? Jacek, you should definitely try to work it out with Jarred, who knows...

In the meantime, can't wait to get it into my hands ;)
 
I'll report here if I hear anything back.
If the path is in the camera that would be ideal- I agree...
 
Nils Ruinet said:
Thing is... Will Red give out enough info to enable third party manufacturers to access these features without having to reverse engineer every bit of it and risk legal / warranty issues ? Jacek, you should definitely try to work it out with Jarred, who knows...
Click to expand...

That's actually a point, a pretty damn good one.

I have a stack of old Sony tech/repair manuals for some of their old cameras. They published detail. I mean DETAIL. I'm talking about component-level stuff, signal paths, board layouts, schematics, even expected scope traces at various test points to aid in troubleshooting.

Unless I've missed something, there are *external* interfaces to RED cameras that are documented poorly or not at all - things like viewfinder pinouts, side handle and SSD attachments... I'm not even sure I've seen a proper description of the main rear bus/power interfaces, which is pretty fundamental for making compatible modules!

What's the story there? I'm not an uncritical fanboy, I use, love, and make money off RED gear pretty much exclusively, but I'll call BS when I see it, and this is *shoddy* and unacceptable. They've done a great job putting products in the marketplace but (as in common in leading-edge stuff, ask any Linux geek if you need to confirm!) the documentation often lags way behind and is treated as an afterthought.

RED's philosophy seems to be the hacker one: 'if you can't work it out for yourself, you don't need/deserve to be spoon-fed it...'

Mike
 
Yes, that kinda reminds me of the "pre-SDK" times, where for at least a couple of years Scratch and FCP were the only softwares able to handle Red files natively (and the old Scratch-based Redcine of course). Other companies were not allowed to make there softwares compatible until the SDK came out. I remember trying to conform my first projects without Scratch. Ouch.

Now I'm left wondering what their plans are regarding hardware. I don't think they ever mentioned anything about giving third parties access to module, LCD, wireless or lens mount information, in order to allow them to develop their own Red compatible accessories. That kinda sucks, because I think if that was the case, I'm pretty sure a lot of companies would have developed some great accessories that would really integrate with Epic's modular system.

Imagine Teradek or Paralinx making a small wireless module.
Imagine Jacek's Optitron working with Red's Canon or Nikon mounts and communicating wirelessly with the Red with a small module on the back (or even none if the Redlink antennas in the camera are now good enough, range wise).
Imagine Blackmagic or Atomos making a Prores/DNxHD/H264 module.
Imagine SmallHD making a Red Lemo cable compatible Oled 7 inch monitor, with touchscreen. Powered by the camera.
Imagine Viewfactor, Action Products or WC making a battery plate that fits directly on the back of the camera without using an external cable.
Imagine someone making an audio receiver module.

And these are just the most obvious ideas.

So yes, Red is probably working on some of these as we speak, but Epics are in the wild for way more than a year now, and we're still waiting for most of them. Maybe opening the system to third parties would help here. Competition is good, I think Red has always said that. Red can't make every possible module, there will always be room for more.

That's actually a real question. I think I'll create a new topic about this.
 
Yeah Red is maturing and they may start picking their battles. Jarred already indicated on the forum that they are moving away from lenses- too much competition.
Also now with their whole new distribution push (I think this will be by far the most profitable branch) they may just decide to let go.
We are willing and able...
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Yeah Red is maturing and they may start picking their battles. Jarred already indicated on the forum that they are moving away from lenses- too much competition.
Also now with their whole new distribution push (I think this will be by far the most profitable branch) they may just decide to let go.
We are willing and able...
Click to expand...
Let's hope so ! You should try to push from your side ;)

Oh and btw, I think tomorrow might be early Xmas for me !
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Yeah Red is maturing and they may start picking their battles. Jarred already indicated on the forum that they are moving away from lenses- too much competition.
Also now with their whole new distribution push (I think this will be by far the most profitable branch) they may just decide to let go.

We are willing and able...
Click to expand...

Jacek question, Could you not do somting that mounts onto the red mote, that drives the wheel of the current red mote for wireless focus.
Seems to me like that would be a short cut and it would not be stepping on red toes :yesnod:

Just your wheel tech and extended gearing and calibration and such but the mote for transmitting.

At lelast as a cheep option.
 
That's an interesting idea.
I think focus control is much too important for bandaid solutions like this. the precision and consistency required far exceeds that of the Redmote. A knob will not change that. but maybe someone wants to tackle this...:)
 
The redmote was meant to set camera parameters before, not during recording. Totally different application-agreed :)
 
The only version of redmote pro is here!!!!
We are finishing a new video.
Coming up soon.
 
Before we finish the new video:
is there anything other than the installation, lens mounting, calibration, OptiTron features and focus pulling samples that you guys would like to see?
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Before we finish the new video:
is there anything other than the installation, lens mounting, calibration, OptiTron features and focus pulling samples that you guys would like to see?
Click to expand...

Jacek - of course!

The one thing we of course want to be certain about is the repeatability and smoothness of focus pulls.

If you nail the ergonomics (and that includes smoothness of focus and just generally make this thing feel as great as possible), folks will be sold.

Do different lenses give different smoothness?

Personally I'd love it if you continued your nice open, honest policy. Everything you're doing so far helps build confidence. You're doing it all right.

However I'd love it if you posted a few videos, saying things like:
"Hey - here's a lens where it works awesome" - and showed an example and give us a list of lenses you've tested
and then
"Here's a lens where it kinda sucks" - and give us an example, plus a list of lenses that don't work so well so we can avoid them

Does it work better with Canon lenses, or might something like that new Sigma 35mm 1.4 work well too?

The next question (I know this is off-topic but it is a serious advantage over RedMote Pro) is - will you have mounts for other cameras - F55, Alexa, etc? I think people would be keener on buying into the system if you made that clear. Since you already make mounts for other cameras, I can see that working?

Then being a 3D geek I want to know about stuff like if we can come up with a compensation system so that slightly mismatched focus between lenses can be compensated for.

In terms of long-term pipe dream stuff, I of course want lens metadata recorded per frame... some way to interface your lens control with a motion control system, etc.

But anyway, awesome stuff man and congrats. If I owned an Epic or a Scarlet, I'd be all over this! But bear in mind folks who will be renting as well - at some point you should give us a list of people who own it so people can just rent the thing for a few days, I think... let the project sell itself via good rental experiences too!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Thanks Bruce,
I appreciate this post and the time you took...
We'll get this done soon with these suggestions noted.
As far as lenses we recommend Canon OEM (obviously) since they all uses the original protocol.
They are smooth and very accurate. In fact once you mark a ring for a particular model (50mm f1.2 for example) ALL copies will come up on the same marks- if only they are in fully operation l state of course:)
The after market lens manufacturers reverse engineered the protocol and the results vary.
Unfortunately one of my favorite brands- Sigma does not look so good.
So far we tested some of their primes and, in short- the electronics suck!!
I have hopes for their new 35mm and- if this one works- maybe the next generation will use the same guts.
I'll keep posting updates....
 
Re: optitron

Re: optitron

+1 on a 3D setup to work with two lenses. Customisable lens LUTS to calibrate for lens distortion errors evident in non 'matched' lens pairs / stills lenses?
Brilliant stuff. Massive potential to bring down the cost of high quality 3D with this system and add more creative control for those on a budget which might lead to more people shooting 3D.
I could see you selling loads of these.
Keep up the good work.

Craig Lees
ScarletX
2D/3D
 
Craig 3D is definitely on the radar with all the trimmings.
It will require custom peripherals and software.
Will keep you all posted here.
 
Some exciting developments coming in /march- wireless support for one + some surprises!!
 
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