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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Opinion on EVF.

Sumfun said:
Gibby,

Thanks for posting your impressions of the EVF and LCD. I'm trying to decide what to buy, so it's great to get first hand feedback from a knowledgeable source.
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Since I had the opportunity to start using RED #8 way back on August 31, and have also had the chance to be the first owner to do a number of technical tests - 3D, underwater, Birger Canon prototype, ActionCam, B4 adaptor, multiple 2/3" lenses - I've taken the opportunity whenever I've had the time, to post my impressions on RED User. I like to think that if the tables were turned, and you or someone else on RED User, had the same early-use chance I've had, that you'd also share your impressions with everyone here.

It's good karma...glad to help...
 
Stuart English said:
The RED-EVF (and all the monitor ports) are supplied from the RAW data, but the feed is debayered, scaled, white balanced and has a REC 709 video gamma applied. So they are crisp, easy to read and display excellent color.
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Thanks for the info, Stuart. So are we to infer that the example posted above does NOT represent the color as we'd see it by default in the EVF? Because that image is not naturally colored.
 
Gibby said:
Here's some pics of the same rig setup using the LCD rather than the EVF.
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I find that even in the "farthest away" position like you have it, the LCD is still much too close when attached with the RED arm to be viewed comfortably. Just my two cents.
 
Sam Druckerman said:
Did you see Evin's post & solution?

You can mount the LCD on the far end of your rod's with it :-)
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I did, there just isn't much space under the lens on the bottom set of rods to use that. Notice how he's got it mounted to the top (which is still much too close in a handheld situation) for this reason. On a tripod, it's great; as a run-and-gun solution, not so much.

To be honest, you can mount the LCD to your rods already just using a universal mount from RED and save yourself $150. The advantage to Evin's option is the quick release - which although I haven't seen function in person - looks like it could be handy. Then again, if the screen is still too close to the operator, it's a moot point. Really what we need is a longer, lightweight arm.
 
EVF color response

EVF color response

Stokestack said:
Thanks for the info, Stuart. So are we to infer that the example posted above does NOT represent the color as we'd see it by default in the EVF? Because that image is not naturally colored.
Click to expand...

Two comments: The first image I posted is certainly not flat or tinted green. Which was a comment from someone...Second: The three small images I posted are examples of what the EVF can display as color looks at this very moment. We just don't have the save / recall look file infrastructure in place, so at the moment you would not be likely to use that functionality.
 
Häakon said:
I did, there just isn't much space under the lens on the bottom set of rods to use that. Notice how he's got it mounted to the top (which is still much too close in a handheld situation) for this reason. On a tripod, it's great; as a run-and-gun solution, not so much.

To be honest, you can mount the LCD to your rods already just using a universal mount from RED and save yourself $150. The advantage to Evin's option is the quick release - which although I haven't seen function in person - looks like it could be handy. Then again, if the screen is still too close to the operator, it's a moot point. Really what we need is a longer, lightweight arm.
Click to expand...

You can use that Z rod mount on the bottom rods too, way out front, in front of everything including the FF, and a RED handle.... We did yesterday for a handheld set up. It was great.

LOL I remember telling Evin.... it's too bad we don't have a camera to post some pics of this set up on the board.

Maybe on a set tomorrow, we can take some snaps.

And yes, a longer light weight arm is a good idea..... and even better, make the connection to the camera and the LCD a quick snap on.

BOT

When I looked through the EVF on RED DAY, It was "LOVE at first Sight". :-)
 
Question for Gabby,

How have you dealt with the ND issue. I see from the photos that you don’t have a matte box and filters and the red body unlike traditional ENG/ EFP cameras has no ND filters on board. I hope to use the camera for documentary work, a lot of shooting from the shoulder. Do you think the ND issues are going to be a big problem if you’re using the camera in an observational style? What other issues do you think see for someone using the camera in this way with either a PL or BL lens?

Thanks for all your insights so far.
 
Ok before I mention my opinion just know that I have never worked with the RED EVF, but I have interacted with one etc and offer my 2 cents.

I feel if you financing a RED package and are on limited budget like myself and had to choose between the two..I would go with just LCD. I know its mainly a Dp choice but many of you are owner operators.

I also felt the EFV was a pretty huge attachment so if keeping a lower profile is a concern of yours then I would also go with LCD. I can manage the 3k for a EVF but I feel I would rather save that money and put it towards an even better Mac Pro set up (a must have IMO)...getting the EVF for when I really know I will need one.

Best
 
I can only presume that its a workable solution Joelnet, given the RED EVF only came out last week so everyone including Pj and Soderbergh etc has been relying on the LCD. (correct me if I am wrong)

From what I also understand the LCD brightness has been improved (via firmware)...add a hood and you have a great outdoor solution (if that suits your style of course). Ever since I started doing this with a Martial monitor I find myself using EFV less and less.

I know some shooters just "Have" to have a EVF...but I am curious to what the RED EVF offers different then the LCD tool set wise?
 
mick doyle said:
Question for Gabby,

How have you dealt with the ND issue. I see from the photos that you don’t have a matte box and filters and the red body unlike traditional ENG/ EFP cameras has no ND filters on board. I hope to use the camera for documentary work, a lot of shooting from the shoulder. Do you think the ND issues are going to be a big problem if you’re using the camera in an observational style? What other issues do you think see for someone using the camera in this way with either a PL or BL lens?

Thanks for all your insights so far.
Click to expand...

Hi Mick,

I'm not Steve Gibby but I feel confident I can answer this since he has been kind enough to pass on the very same info to me.

Steve purchased (bhphotovideo.com) a variety of the circular, threaded, screw on type NDs. Though this is a work around and it takes more time than drop in NDs it is one of our few choices (no internal filter wheel) and certainly requires some forethought before shooting. Hope this helps Mick because I am in the same boat with you.

On the EVF... My main concern has always been my ability to position and adjust the EVF while the camera is on my shoulder. I think we all see those challenges given the set ups we have seen... But there is no need to throw the EVF out as an option if you find this too much to deal with in the field. The answer could be this future product from Element Technica...

Here is a quote from Stephen Pizzo/Element Technica,"We are working on a very configurable EVF mounting system. It will allow pivoting when tilting but can also be quickly locked into place for hand-held work. You can also set the amount of drag so that it stays where you leave it but can be easily re-positioned. It can be extended for work on a geared head and will be compatible with most standard eyepiece levellers. We will likely offer our own leveller as part of the EVF mounting system at some point."

here is a link to that page...http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5332&page=3&highlight=element

Hope this helps answer a few questions here.

Cheers,

Andrew
 
Haskell said:
..I feel if you financing a RED package and are on limited budget like myself and had to choose between the two..I would go with just LCD...I can manage the 3k for a EVF but I feel I would rather save that money and put it towards an even better Mac Pro set up (a must have IMO)...getting the EVF for when I really know I will need one.
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Hi Haskell,

well, I'd go exactly vice versa (I ordered both in fact). You can buy any LCD with HDMI in and it should work with the REDs out... hopefully. (If not that particular one, maybe the 2nd next) - but you can't buy another EVF. And the EVF is important for work in sunlight, has better User interface I guess (it has the assignable buttons, higher res) and your DP will probably ask for it anyway. I even believe there are 1 or 2 features available only on the EVF, not on the LCD, don't remember which though.
And if you feel, you buy just any smaller mountable LCD for 800$ - its not the same and not so nicely integrated, but the EVF was one part that really made me happy when they announced it.
 
good points Rock...I have always been real excited about the EVF, just saying for those who are tight on budget, I dont see it has a must have to make your movie. By all means if you can afford it then of course the more accessories you have the more RED setups will be available to you. I would like to know more about the exclusive EVF features.
 
Häakon said:
I find that even in the "farthest away" position like you have it, the LCD is still much too close when attached with the RED arm to be viewed comfortably. Just my two cents.
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That setup was assembled quickly on location in Jackson Hole without access to my grip kit. I also didn't have a left front RED Cage piece with me. If I had, I would have been able to do a lower mount of the LCD. At the distance my eyes were away from the LCD in those pics, my eyes could easily focus on the image and data in the LCD.

With more time and grip equipment I could have easily set the LCD up for better use - lower and slightly farther away.

I''ve been fully aware of the Element solution that Andrew mentioned in this thread. The guys at Element are friends of mine. I'll definitely test out their solution when it is available.
 
Häakon said:
I did, there just isn't much space under the lens on the bottom set of rods to use that. Notice how he's got it mounted to the top (which is still much too close in a handheld situation) for this reason. On a tripod, it's great; as a run-and-gun solution, not so much.
Click to expand...

See my last post...
 
joelnet said:
Interesting. Is the LCD with a hood outdoors a workable alternative to the EVF?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It can definitely be a workable alternative. The EVF in the pic was a loaner from Stuart English that I shot with for about an hour. I'll get my own EVF shortly. For two months now I've been shooting extensively with RED #8, using the RED LCD for nearly everything. See my "Impressions of RED #8" thread for details. A large portion of that shooting has been outdoors. Yes, IMO the RED LCD performs well everywhere, indoors and outdoors.

That said, the broad range of production genres and sub-genres me and my crews do, requires us to use both an EVF and an LCD. The LCD is crucial for high angle and low angle hand held, when using our ActionCam RED or other stabilizer, POV, etc. The EVF will be used in many other shooting situations. RED has said they intend to enable the simultaneous use of both the EVF and LCD, something that hasn't been enabled yet, but should be in the near future. There will be many times and productions when we will run both the EVF and LCD simultaneously.
 
Haskell said:
good points Rock...I have always been real excited about the EVF, just saying for those who are tight on budget, I dont see it has a must have to make your movie. By all means if you can afford it then of course the more accessories you have the more RED setups will be available to you. I would like to know more about the exclusive EVF features.
Click to expand...

I don't see how anyone could shoot with just the LCD. I think once the EVF
is fully shipping and we get more user reports, it will be a must have.
You could rent most any LCD but you cannot rent just the EVF.
 
Andrew Benz said:
Steve purchased (bhphotovideo.com) a variety of the circular, threaded, screw on type NDs. Though this is a work around and it takes more time than drop in NDs it is one of our few choices (no internal filter wheel) and certainly requires some forethought before shooting. Hope this helps Mick because I am in the same boat with you.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andrew...that is one of the filter solutions for mobile EFP work that I've mentioned...and I've been using that as one of my solutions for mobile EFP work with RED #8 for two months now, so its not a question of "Will this work?" but rather a statement of "This is a workable solution".

Beyond screw on filters, a lightweight clip-on matte box and drop in filters is the other option. I've also been testing out this option, with good results.

Unless you're in an extremely rapid light changing workflow, indoors to outdoors rapidly, both of the above solutions are fully workable with a minimum of hassle. I've been using those solutions for two months now in extensive mobile EFP and cine-style work with RED #8, so they're not hypothesis, but rather reality.
 
Red Guy said:
I don't see how anyone could shoot with just the LCD. I think once the EVF
is fully shipping and we get more user reports, it will be a must have.
You could rent most any LCD but you cannot rent just the EVF.
Click to expand...

I do. Me and my crews have been shooting vast amounts of cine-style and EFP style production for the past two months using the RED LCD, with an occasional preview or client monitor on stationary projects. Shooting with just the LCD has its workarounds for certain types of shots for sure, but it is certainly workable by open minded and skilled professionals. In my previous post I mentioned that me and my crews will be using both the LCD and EVF continually. Then again, we don't just do narrative cinema, but rather a broad range of cine-style and EFP style production genres. See my "Impressions of RED #8" thread on the main forum for details.
 
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