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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Opinion on EVF.

SurroundView(tm) is a RED Camera feature which allows the operator to see outside the frameline area of the image, much like Film Cameras can.

With the added resolution the RED One offers, Operators, DPs, Directors, etc. will be able to see outside the frame edges in the viewfinder, LCD, and other monitor outputs which is very useful.

One example is when the Sound Mixer can communicate to the boom operators when the microphones are nearing the frameline...
 
filament said:
Was getting the evf horizon parallel to the camera a challenge?
Click to expand...

Expanding on this question... how easy is it to make small adjustments with one hand to the EVF when on the arm?

I would think it's fairly heavy and the arm handle would need to be cranked down, which might make it hard to adjust without grabbing the handle with one hand and the EVF in the other...
 
The fact that you can set up this camera as an EFP camera is a huge deal. This is major folks.

This camera will change everything.

And can you believe we're talking "only" 2K!!!!! That's friggin unbelievable

Jay
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Expanding on this question... how easy is it to make small adjustments with one hand to the EVF when on the arm?

I would think it's fairly heavy and the arm handle would need to be cranked down, which might make it hard to adjust without grabbing the handle with one hand and the EVF in the other...
Click to expand...


It is not very easy. I think there is room for improvement in the arm, which is a bit light for the big Panavison-like viewfinder . The fact that you can not rotate it easily with one hand or adjust the height while jibbing or tilting the camera is something which can be improved IMHO.

Mick van Rossum NSC
 
Brook Willard said:
It's 1,280 x 848 if memory serves [which it very well may not... :)].

Nice to see that the RED holds its own in this EFP configuration.
Click to expand...

Good catch Brook...a typo on my part...vertical res of the EVF is 848, not 868

Yes, it's way cool that RED has included EFP capability. Here's some background and insight on that:

My input to RED at the very first RED One camera specifications meeting in December 2005 included both cine-style and EFP style recommendations. I work in a broad array of genres within those two styles. I jumped on the RED bandwagon in 2005 because I felt and hoped that RED One would be a scalable, flexible, and high utility camera system that could be re-setup quickly and easily for cine-style and EFP style production. I've fought since 2005 for RED One to retain its EFP capabilities. As you can see from the pics I posted, it has. I'm very happy about that...

Since receiving RED #8 seven weeks ago I've placed the camera in almost every kind of shooting genre possible, from large crew film style productions down to just me hiking miles into the wilderness to shoot nature footage. It's been used for 4k 3D, underwater, commercials, features, stock footage, sports, nature, documentary style, hand held EFP, POV, shoulder held EFP, jibs, stabilization systems, and on and on - all in the past seven weeks since receiving the camera.

Narrative cinema gets a lot of attention on RED User, and many on in this community may choose to ignore RED One's EFP capabilities, but RED One was conceived from the very beginning as a multi-use cine style and EFP style camera system - and I'm one of the ones who will truly maximize RED One's design and revenue generating capabilities. Non-hardlined EFP represents the single largest production percentage of the total of motion media projects worldwide each year - and consequently represents the single largest potential market for RED One.

IMO RED was very wise to include EFP capability in RED One. The days of people just limiting themselves to either cine style of EFP style are past. Today's technology, combined with yesterday's techniques, now erases the former dividing lines between cine-style and EFP style, and enables a much broader choice of projects we can do.
 
Viewfinder

Viewfinder

Mick van Rossum said:
I think there is room for improvement in the arm IMHO
Click to expand...

We are always evaluating the components in the design for improvement, so user feedback such as this is welcome.

Here is an illustration of the EVF - showing Surround View and Frame Guides being adjusted
 
Jim Arthurs said:
Expanding on this question... how easy is it to make small adjustments with one hand to the EVF when on the arm?

I would think it's fairly heavy and the arm handle would need to be cranked down, which might make it hard to adjust without grabbing the handle with one hand and the EVF in the other...
Click to expand...

It's not easy to make adjustments to the EVF position with one hand. The adjustable arm that I use for the LCD, and used for the EVF in the pics, was adequate to mount the EVF, but IMO better for use with the LCD than with the EVF. That said, I'm sure RED and 3rd party fabricators are aware of the need for a mount for the EVF that has the capability of quick and easy vertical and lateral adjustments to the EVF position relative to the camera and operator. Because I was time-challenged that day and didn't have the single RED Cage piece for the left-front of the camera body to mount the EVF on, I simply mounted the EVF on the top-left of the camera body. In reality, and with planning, the EVF can be mounted anywhere on the camera or on its accessories that have mounting holes - a significant improvement over traditional EVF mountings on cameras that are fixed in location and only have a vertical position adjustment.

The EVF seriously rocks. Once the mounting options are exploited that will complete the scenario.
 
Gibby said:
IMO RED was very wise to include EFP capability in RED One. The days of people just limiting themselves to either cine style of EFP style are past. Today's technology, combined with yesterday's techniques, now erases the former dividing lines between cine-style and EFP style, and enables a much broader choice of projects we can do.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why we bought one as well, the capability to bring a new level of consistent quality to the field/military environment with the ability for more if we want it..
 
Sumfun said:
Did you try the LCD in the same shoulder mount configuration? Looks like it might be too close to your face to get a clear picture.
Click to expand...

Here's some pics of the same rig setup using the LCD rather than the EVF. The LCD is mounted a bit higher than I would normally use it, something I could have adjusted easily before these pics were taken. Again, if I'd have had the one RED Cage piece for the left-front corner of the camera, I could have easily mounted the LCD much lower and farther forward. In these pics the LCD is far enough away from my eyes for me to see the image on it clearly.

When I shot in with this setup, all focus was easily achieved by sight by simply using the 2x image magnification button on the side of RED One, and exposure was quickly and easily achieved by using the 100 IRE zebra and simply protecting for the highlights. I shot 2k RC RAW @23.98fps and 72fps.

The LCD may not be optimum for a shoulder held EFP setup like that, but it is usable if you don't have the EVF. If the LCD was placed a bit farther away from my eyes, and I used an LCD hood to shade it, it could essentially be used the same as the EVF, but with less efficiency in that shoulder held setup. The LCD is excellent for a lot of uses. LCD resolution is 1024x600, but the EVF is 1280x848. Both show the camera data and menu navigation above and below the frame, although the EVF gives you the option of more camera data. BTW...because both show the menu navigation functions below the frame I rarely use the LCD on the back of the camera when navigating menus - all menu navigation is available to your eyes in the LCD of EVF.

I'll use both the LCD and EVF for the broad range of cine style and EFP style productions I do. Sometimes I'll use both simultaneously - a very cool feature that RED previously announced they intend to enable. Hopefully that will still be the case. When I have the EVF I'll still use the LCD widely for low angle, high angle, ActionCam, jib, POV, and many other uses.

I don't have the EVF yet, but I've used the LCD for a huge variety of shooting situations and genres in the last seven weeks, all with very good results. Again, I need both for what I do.

Thanks again to Clark Dunbar of Mammoth HD for taking the pics and supplying them to me.
 
MrGlory said:
This is exactly why we bought one as well, the capability to bring a new level of consistent quality to the field/military environment with the ability for more if we want it..
Click to expand...

That's great to hear, and it doesn't surprise me a bit. I'm a veteran (USAF), in fact a Viet Nam veteran, and I've already had preliminary talks with certain military entities for my production company to demo our RED One capabilities to them. They're very interested in RED One, obviously not for narrative cinema, but for the wide range of mobile EFP capabilities RED One has.

Veterans Day is coming up soon (November 11). Let me wish you in advance a very good Veteran's Day.

If you'd like, PM me to discuss my concepts of military applications for RED One. I'd be happy to continue an offline dialog on that.
 
Thanks Gibby for all your information and opinions. I was debating on holding off on the EVF but I see now that it will be useful and allow me to broaden my horizons.
 
Stuart English said:
Here is an illustration of the EVF - showing Surround View and Frame Guides being adjusted
Click to expand...
Stuart, I think that's the first non-photographed view of the EVF info, so thanks for uploading it. Looks fantastic!

One thing I'd mention, just in case it hasn't been thought of (unlikely but you never know) - the frame guide number box currently selected (in your example shot it's 1.85 with a slider underneath) should probably be wide enough to accomodate future custom guides created and named by the users. Perhaps limit the guide overlay (PSD files?) name to 8 characters, but imagine scrolling past the Red presets to our own customised names and choosing them intuitively!

Outstanding stuff, keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Paul
 
Gibby,

Thanks for posting your impressions of the EVF and LCD. I'm trying to decide what to buy, so it's great to get first hand feedback from a knowledgeable source.
 
Does that image in the EVF rendering simulate the color level in the real EVF? Looking at one of the prototypes at NAB last year, I remember being somewhat disappointed. However, I have no experience with high-quality electronic EVFs, and the indoor lighting conditions were poor.

Looking at that image, I think a lack of color was one of the things that bothered me. Why does that image lack color, and does the real EVF image lack it too?
 
Stokestack said:
Looking at that image, I think a lack of color was one of the things that bothered me. Why does that image lack color, and does the real EVF image lack it too?
Click to expand...

You've got to remember the RAW image is a very flat image. That's probably what's currently being sent to the monitor. In the future it might be possible to apply a color look to the raw footage and have it shown in the EVF.

The viewfinder itself is one of the best from all accounts so I'm sure it's capable of pretty decent color rendition. I'm more worried about the ability to tell focus. Focus and Framing are what I need the EVF for. B&W would be fine with me.
 
Camera viewfinders are for frame viewing and can be use for focusing if sharp enough. Thus I would prefer a hi-rez black and white image over any type of color one that might compromise resoultion.
 
EVF - Resolution

EVF - Resolution

chuck colburn said:
Camera viewfinders are for frame viewing and can be use for focusing if sharp enough. Thus I would prefer a hi-rez black and white image over any type of color one that might compromise resoultion.
Click to expand...

Maybe I should just say that the RED design difference is that RED-EVF doesn't compromise resolution. There is a monochrome mode if you prefer that (sometimes I do) but its a color on / off choice not a hi / lo resolution choice.
 
joelnet said:
You've got to remember the RAW image is a very flat image. That's probably what's currently being sent to the monitor. In the future it might be possible to apply a color look to the raw footage and have it shown in the EVF.
Click to expand...

Actually that isn't what is sent to the RED-EVF. The RED-EVF (and all the monitor ports) are supplied from the RAW data, but the feed is debayered, scaled, white balanced and has a REC 709 video gamma applied. So they are crisp, easy to read and display excellent color. Then "applying a color look" is exactly what it is doing right now. If we adjust R G B gains, saturation or other stuff then we would get looks equivelent to what you can see in REDALERT or REDCINE or the QuickTimes. i.e the same color as these:-
 
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