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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

On Scarlet-X to Epic Dragon

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Josh - just wondering, are you interested in getting a RED camera (Epic or Scarlet)...?
 
Bob Gundu said:
Actually to be accurate, RED said the cost of upgrading the Scarlet was more than $6000 but less than the cost of the body which was ~10K.
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At the time.... Perhaps the 18+ stops of potential range means the internal architecture has to change to 24bit, and thus a whole new asic system is necessary. And beyond the 16bits of the current system. They seem suprised at its performance, i know they were expecting 15+ stops, but the ability to process 18-20 with any accuracy needs much more.

This means a more expensive upgrade, that the chips in a scarlet could never do. Hell a current epic attached to a dragon would only be able to handle 15stops with its 14 bit internal architecture.

Things changed, and i think all of us would prefer the system be optimized for the new spec instead of letting much of it go.
 
Andy White said:
Josh - just wondering, are you interested in getting a RED camera (Epic or Scarlet)...?
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Scarlet? No. There are camera that produces equal cinema grade image for 3k$ and soon many more for under 5k$. EPIC? Maybe. It's the best bang for buck above 20k$.
 
Martin Weiss said:
Please stop calling the Scarlet a crippled camera. It is a very powerful camera.
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By crippled people mean crippled version of EPIC (or Dragon). The term has been used many times in here for a long time. It doesn't mean that Scarlet is crippled in any way from the specs listed for it. Same term is used for many products from other camera manufacturers too. Canon has crippled DSLR's, Gopro has crippled versions of Gopro 3 and so on.
 
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Can't this person just go away? He keeps popping up in threads out of nowhere stirring up sh$8. I know this is a public forum but Jesus lets keep it on topic.
 
I'm with you Timur. The direction the Epic Dragon is headed is groundbreaking. It's rare throwing a stone in the distance and then surpassing all expectations. My investment in RED wasn't contingent on future proofing. It was relevant to the jobs I was landing. It didn't take long before I saw the merits of shooting 4K to trickle into everything I did. The future is rapidly changing and it's wise to look at what you need now and capitalize on it. I'm glad RED is throwing that rock further and harder now because the ride is so much more exciting. Specs change, so does life. No point dwelling on it. I was so close to upgrading to epic just a month ago. I guess I'll just hold out for the Epic Dragon now. Happy shooting.


Timur Civan said:
At the time.... Perhaps the 18+ stops of potential range means the internal architecture has to change to 24bit, and thus a whole new asic system is necessary. And beyond the 16bits of the current system. They seem suprised at its performance, i know they were expecting 15+ stops, but the ability to process 18-20 with any accuracy needs much more.

This means a more expensive upgrade, that the chips in a scarlet could never do. Hell a current epic attached to a dragon would only be able to handle 15stops with its 14 bit internal architecture.

Things changed, and i think all of us would prefer the system be optimized for the new spec instead of letting much of it go.
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My thoughts exactly Robino_J! =)


If RED offered a trade-in program like they did with R1 to Epic-X I would be completely THRILLED to send my Scarlet-X to RED and knock the price of an Epic-X (battle tested or not) down to 9,000-12,000 range.
 
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Robino_J said:
Can't this person just go away? He keeps popping up in threads out of nowhere stirring up sh$8. I know this is a public forum but Jesus lets keep it on topic.
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What did i stirr? In my first post I made valid points how Scarlet could be updated to BT EPIC-X's and many seem to agree. The first half was price speculation based on Jim's and Jarred's Dragon announcements that listed same specs (resolution and fps) but no price for Scarlet upgrade.
 
Josh Snyder said:
One years later when the specs were actually announced they were same for both cameras: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon
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I have nothing to prove to you Josh. If you've missed things on your own that is fine. I'm not going to scroll through 20 pages of information to tell you things other posters have already verified are true. I saw and read the posts to stay informed. You coming here to push other brands and be the cool guy who tries to call out members who actually have RED's and have been here even longer than yourself is getting old.

*It was said, the Scarlet upgrade would cost more to get into Dragon.
*It was said that the Scarlet upgrade would follow after the Epics were upgraded.
*It was also said that it would cost less the the purchase of a new body.

If you can't find it, i'm sure their are 20 other posters who would back up those points in a heart beat.

And with that the Specs weren't the same for both cameras. That was the upgrade for the Epic, read on and you'll say they don't want to say anything about what it'll be for the Scarlet until they've full solved it for the Epic...
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
I have nothing to prove to you Josh. If you've missed things on your own that is fine. I'm not going to scroll through 20 pages of information to tell you things other posters have already verified are true. I saw and read the posts to stay informed. You coming here to push other brands and be the cool guy who tries to call out members who actually have RED's and have been here even longer than yourself is getting old.

*It was said, the Scarlet upgrade would cost more to get into Dragon.
*It was said that the Scarlet upgrade would follow after the Epics were upgraded.
*It was also said that it would cost less the the purchase of a new body.

If you can't find it, i'm sure their are 20 other posters who would back up those points in a heart beat.

And with that the Specs weren't the same for both cameras. That was the upgrade for the Epic, read on and you'll say they don't want to say anything about what it'll be for the Scarlet until they've full solved it for the Epic...
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Jeff, the best is to ignore this person. He brings nothing constructive to this forum. Let's move along and ignore all his posts - eventually he will fade away :)
 
My opinion but here's my thoughts on the Scarlet situation...

First, Regardless whether the Scarlet has the same components, different components or lessor value or missing components than the Epic doesn't matter. Jarred has already said in the "Enter The Dragon" thread:

"This is likely to affect the price of the upgrade a bit.. and its going to close the door on any chance of a Scarlet to be able to upgrade to Dragon. We are however.. going to be offering a trade-in program much like we did with the R1 for Scarlet customers to get into an Epic Dragon."

The discussion about component upgradability is over. Trade-in is the discussion. All past talks comes down to this statement now (ending all previous speculations). Whether Red offers a trade-in to Epic-D or interim stage with the Epic-X remains the question and the discussion about this thread.

So Red Scarlet owners...

• If you're happy with your Scarlet, DON'T Upgrade. Or do so if you can afford it and be happy. Epic - Dragon will be cool!

• If you expected the trade-in to be 6K or cheaper, then ask yourself why a company like Red needs to be loyal to you when you are 'nickel and diming' them expecting to pay less then Epic-X owners for the same upgrade (where's your logic). How do you deserve this when you're loyalty paid RED less.

• If you expect the Scarlet trade-in to be 10K or less, maybe RED will give an interim option in the end. BUT don't expect Dragon's full capabilities (at least not the Epic form of 6K...maybe Red will offer a 5K version for Scarlet owners that can't afford the high end...who knows). Anything said in the past is no longer relevant. The latest was that it was gonna cost us all more money (Epid owners included). Only trust the latest info.

• Anything more then 10K will come close to the Epic cost (when you add your USED Scarlet investment) and thus would equal the same money investment as Epic upgraders. You join the ranks of Epic - Dragon. Remember that Epic owners might be paying a higher price then the 6K originally suggested (since the specs are higher then offered).

• Now for those that can't afford the 10K+ AND RED doesn't offer an in-between offered (Epic-X or Epic-D5k), then as much as you whine, you must admit that Red offered you an upgrade path. Afford it or not, they offered (fulfilling what they said so far). Where's your Canon 5D? Did you get to trade-in for the C300 or C500 or 1DC or even the MkIII? You might not like it but if there is no interim cheaper stage, then simply enjoy your camera. Scarlet still beats the competition in it's category and hopefully you've already earned enough money to justify it's cost.


What most of us are getting tired is those that expect the world from Red yet expect to pay less cause they believe Red said 'they'd be looked after'. Well, they will (within reason). Getting full value trade-in of a used Scarlet is already a generous option (if offered). How can anyone expect anything more (and be greedy by justifying it under loyalty).

If you don't like the fact that you can't afford the upgrade (whether or not an interim stage get's offered)...DON'T Upgrade...but don't blame the company for not offering an UPGRADE PATH. Your camera is your camera. Sell it if you want. It's your camera not Red's to take back. They are doing us a favour (by giving us an option). Motto or not, any trade-in path by Red is generous. If you can't afford it now. Do it later. Upgrade in a year. Make money.

Anything Jim or Jarred said in previous thread are meaningless up to the latest info (as things change and they update us on the progress and status). Don't hold them to past comments and definitely don't expect loyalty. They've already paid us their loyalty with the camera sitting in your house.

This comment Not directed to any one user but the vibe that I'm getting. Maybe I'm misinterpreting. Thought I'd say my thoughts.
 
Thanks Bob. Exciting times ahead!
 
It makes a ton of sense for Red to get a brain in as many people's hands as possible- more mags, EVFs, cables, t-shirts, hats etc. to be sold. The best way to do this is to lower prices and offer upgrade paths; sell re-furb cameras for a fraction of the sticker price.

This is something the big guys can't or won't do for whatever reason. Maybe the overhead on fixing up and storing cameras costs more than building the next model from the ground up. Or they do something like S-Log where they intentionally restrict a camera's potential and charge for the upgrade.

Your camera is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it and at the very least Red is going to put an offer on the table. I don't know what that is, but in the mean time I'm making it work for me until the time comes to make a decision to put up or shut up.
 
Bob Gundu said:
I'm with you Timur. The direction the Epic Dragon is headed is groundbreaking. It's rare throwing a stone in the distance and then surpassing all expectations. My investment in RED wasn't contingent on future proofing. It was relevant to the jobs I was landing. It didn't take long before I saw the merits of shooting 4K to trickle into everything I did. The future is rapidly changing and it's wise to look at what you need now and capitalize on it. I'm glad RED is throwing that rock further and harder now because the ride is so much more exciting. Specs change, so does life. No point dwelling on it. I was so close to upgrading to epic just a month ago. I guess I'll just hold out for the Epic Dragon now. Happy shooting.
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Well said. I look at it this way: My Scarlet paid for itself in about 45 days ... and it has been consistently making money for me ever since. Maybe I am just lucky ... who knows? The money I spent to to buy my Scarlet and invest in the RED "ecosystem" was "new money." If I upgrade to a an Epic Dragon it won't be "new money" that I am taking out of my pocket ... but money that I have earned from my inital Scarlet investment. My camera is a creative tool ... nothing more ... nothing less. If I have to upgrade to be competitive, I'll do it.

__________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8
 
There continues to be a lot of endless speculation of what the trade in value will be and what the Epic Dragon will cost. Let's leave that up to RED to decide. It is afterall, their business.
 
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