OLED 4K Monitor? HDR?

[Tom Lowe]

I have been eagerly awaiting the new Dell 4K UHD OLED monitor, but unfortunately, that monitor is seriously delayed, with some reports saying it won't be ready until Q3.

Are there any other choices for an OLED 4K UHD monitor?

What choices are available now, or coming soon, for monitoring HDR at 4K/UHD?

 

[L. Langer]

Keep your peepers on LG. They are working on HDR monitors for PCs. HDR will be in the 1.4 revision of DisplayPort, but HDR over HDMI is expected to be implemented in the first crop of HDR PC displays since all the upcoming AMD GPUs use it with the latest HDMI revision. What you want is more or less going to be out next year at the earliest, though we have absolutely no ideas about cost/quality for the first-generation of HDR PC displays. Right now, companies are focused on Quantum Dots because they are far easier and less expensive to put in products than any OLED displays, so that's what you'll see in the HDR PC monitors for the time being, though OLED will be present in a few token offerings for at least the first and second generation.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Flanders just made some announcements about 4k monitors, HDR, etc. I'd keep an eye on them at NAB.

 

[Will Keir]

+1

Looking forward to some new options.

I have been eagerly awaiting the new Dell 4K UHD OLED monitor, but unfortunately, that monitor is seriously delayed, with some reports saying it won't be ready until Q3.

Are there any other choices for an OLED 4K UHD monitor?

What choices are available now, or coming soon, for monitoring HDR at 4K/UHD?

 

[Marc Wielage]

There were quite a few prototypes at NAB, but not a lot of real product for this year in the under-$10,000 price range that I saw. Panasonic had a pro HDR 4K display but they couldn't tell me when it would be out, other than that it was "comparable" to the Sony BVM-X300. Flanders showed a 4K prototype, but even that is months away and is not HDR. I think a lot of HDR stuff is very premature at the moment, except for those with deep pockets and fairly serious commitments.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Feels like it's not worth upgrading my grade monitor until we have some reasonably priced HDR 4K monitors. Which might be a while.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Not a lot to see on the NAB show floor. Some expensive prototypes from FSI and others. Some HDR from Canon, Sony, etc... And while the HDR seems to look good, it was hard to really see what they had to offer. Too much salesperson BS to wade through and the inability of show floor goons to answer technical questions also makes it hard. Top that off with the practice at every freaking booth where they would dial back all the regular monitors to look like mud when in the same viewing space as the HDR monitors, all while pumping up the HDR monitors to look over-saturated and cartoony. Canon was the worst with this gimmick. All in all, as far as monitors go, this NABshow was pretty lame. And most of the pro monitor companies have totally dropped the ball when it comes to 4K products. But that was already apparent the last couple years. What is apparent this year is that most still don't feel compelled to do anything about it.

Nice to see a few 8K panels make an appearance. Hard to tell how good they truly were due to shitty footage being displayed with too much noise and artifacting. The best 8K panel I saw was in the Panasonic booth, but they couldn't give any info on it, just that it was a prototype. Their 8K theatre was nice too, but doesn't really translate into stuff we can get our hands on.

The upcoming Dell OLED uses an LG panel as far as I'm aware. As do most the other panels like it that are coming to market. The industry is pretty much waiting on LG to deliver here. I wouldn't get too excited. Even once the display is here, we still have to wait for most of the other support hardware and software to step up as well.

 

[Eric Santiago]

Thanks Jeff for your input.

Honestly you should have your own section here

 

[David Collard]

A colleague has seen the new 4K LG OLED prosumer models. They start at around 65" + ??
He says they are the best televisions he's ever seen. I believe they're priced around the $8000 mark ??, but for
many pro users here that seems like a great deal particularly if you could make them work as a reference
monitor and business "theatre" monitor. Would be nice to see smaller models too.

 

[Adrian Jebef]

Only real HDR displays in town are both the Sony 4K OLEDs. 25" will be around $30K and the 55" around 20K? That's a real nice price point for that 55" though Sony has said it is intended to be used alongside the 25". Consumer-grade 4K OLED panels were all over the floor run thru LUT boxes to get better results. Pretty good looking images but too many issues for color-critical work. The new SmallHD displays were painful to look at and probably get my "worst use of brightness and contrast" award. Atamos actually looked pretty good and genuinely surprised me. And I'm not sure why Jeff dismissed Canon but their proof-of-concept 8K projection demo was probably the most striking thing I saw at NAB. Maybe second only to their 8K HDR 55"? panel. If I can watch TV on that then go ahead and shoot 8K. Otherwise I ain't interested.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I've heard about a Canon HDR monitor? What's the story on that? Is it 4K?

Does anyone have an LG OLED yet? I think the 65" is out now, and the 75" coming soon?

I had a chance to sit in on a DI session with a Dolby Laser Vision 4K projector recently and I can tell you, this projector is absolutely ridiculous. Just amazing. :drool:

 

[Tom Lowe]

Any thoughts on LG G6 OLED 4K HDR TV vs the Samsung Quantum-Dot 1,000-nit SUHD HDR TVs?

 

[Stacey Spears]

I have had a 2016 LG OLED 65E6 for about a month. We had it in our booth at NAB too. It's the current best consumer HDR TV in my opinion.

The Samsung JS9500 is a poor quality HDR display. Gamut mapping is broken and severe off axis blooming. It's also curved, which I am not a fan of.

The 2000 nit Canon is ~$60k I believe.

 

[Hugues Dagallier]

Any thoughts on LG G6 OLED 4K HDR TV vs the Samsung Quantum-Dot 1,000-nit SUHD HDR TVs?

Despite the nice reviews of the KS9500, reviews seems to agree that LG G6 is the TV to beat this year in term of IQ. 2016 LG OLED are simply gorgeous.

 

[jussi rovanpera]

I have had a 2016 LG OLED 65E6 for about a month. We had it in our booth at NAB too. It's the current best consumer HDR TV in my opinion.

The Samsung JS9500 is a poor quality HDR display. Gamut mapping is broken and severe off axis blooming. It's also curved, which I am not a fan of.

The 2000 nit Canon is ~$60k I believe.

Stacey, can you tell us a bit more in detail how you find the E6, those seem to be coming out just now?

 

[Björn Benckert]

I have had a 2016 LG OLED 65E6 for about a month. We had it in our booth at NAB too. It's the current best consumer HDR TV in my opinion.

The Samsung JS9500 is a poor quality HDR display. Gamut mapping is broken and severe off axis blooming. It's also curved, which I am not a fan of.

The 2000 nit Canon is ~$60k I believe.

Question: the difference in 65E6V and 65B6V in terms of picture is as I understand only that the E6V has 3D (which I really don't need) or is there any other differences? Some sales guy told me one take 12bit imput and the other does not. But from reading the TV geek forums they seem to be the same / Only different chassis and speakers, but same image pipe all the way from the HDMI in to the eye...

Both are Dolby vision and UHD premium certified and does HDR as I understand.

Can somebody confirm?

Picking up the B6V in a couple off hours when the store opens and would hate to find out later that I bought a 10bit set when there was a 12bit or such.

 

[Stacey Spears]

Question: the difference in 65E6V and 65B6V in terms of picture is as I understand only that the E6V has 3D (which I really don't need) or is there any other differences? ...Picking up the B6V in a couple off hours when the store opens and would hate to find out later that I bought a 10bit set when there was a 12bit or such.

For SDR, many post houses have been buying the B6 over the E6 for cost savings. Though, the B6 is not calibrating nearly as well as the E6 using a 3D LUT box in front of it for SDR. There are several interesting challenges with the LG OLED that we are working hard to solve. It has four sub pixels, RGBW. The white produced from using RGB does not match the white subpixel since it is unfiltered. The bitdepth is the same for the B and E6.

One issue that all consumer HDR displays suffer from today is that none of them have been built for true HDR from the get go. What I mean by this is that in HDR mode, they all have to apply an inverse gamma as the HDR signal still goes through the gamma path and they have to undo the gamma before it is applied. This will change as time goes by. I recently bought a Sony Z9D for HDR pattern development. This is one of the few HDR displays that is true 10-bit. Many are using dither to simulate 10-bit.

Here are some test clips you can put on a USB stick and play in the display.

Starfield - This really shows off OLED vs. FALD based LCD. There are four levels of stars. The last has too many and has severe compression artifacts. I will probably drop it. Each level begins and ends with a fade to/from black. The first is actually the most difficult as there are so few stars. The LGs do very well. Gavin created this for me. This may be an HDR version of the clip.

Banding - This has three rotating shallow gradients. The first (left) is 10-bit rounded to 8-bit. You are supposed to see banding on this box. The middle was 10-bit dithered to 8-bit. The last is 10-bit. The last (right) should be the smoothest if you are really getting 10-bit. You will see some banding on the LG B6 and E6. Something in the displays pipeline is impacting bitdepth. Sony Z9D is perfect on this as is the Sony 940C and VIZIO R65. Everything else has some amount of banding. This is a luma version. I will be creating chroma versions in the future.

You are free to share these clips with anyone.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Hi Stacey, I read the displaymate article and the 6B OLED has been recommended to me (but think the 6E with 3Dvis a better choice) but the only 65 inch within my price range with reasonable color is a heavily discounted Panasonic DX902B/DX900B THX screen. I was wondering what you thought of this screen, and against the 6E for the price? I don't want to do anything terribly great with it in post, just mostly low end jobs, local regional ads, commumity work and docos, where absolute perfection does not matter, and is not paid for.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1462429125

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-58-dx902B-dx900-ultra-hd-4k-hdr-tv-review.12278

Re-calibrating it is not an issue.

About the Samsung KS9500 color tracking issues above, I think I read there was a firmware update.

I also agree with the different perception between a small and large screen. This is why I was getting two screens, as the small one might give a size similar to TV, but does not easily good be the impression of a cinema range of distances for docos.

Thanks.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Hi Stacey, I read the displaymate article and the 6B OLED has been recommended to me (but think the 6E with 3Dvis a better choice) but the only 65 inch within my price range with reasonable color is a heavily discounted Panasonic DX902B/DX900B THX screen. I was wondering what you thought of this screen, and against the 6E for the price? I don't want to do anything terribly great with it in post, just mostly low end jobs, local regional ads, commumity work and docos, where absolute perfection does not matter, and is not paid for.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1462429125

https://www.avforums.com/review/panasonic-tx-58-dx902B-dx900-ultra-hd-4k-hdr-tv-review.12278

Re-calibrating it is not an issue.

About the Samsung KS9500 color tracking issues above, I think I read there was a firmware update.

I also agree with the different perception between a small and large screen. This is why I was getting two screens, as the small one might give a size similar to TV, but does not easily good be the impression of a cinema range of distances for docos.

Thanks.

The difference in 65E6V and 65B6V is that they disabled 3D in B and then E has a fancy speaker... But that speaker as I see it is more of a problem if you want to the screen on a wall. And personally, I hate 3D had it on my last screen and tried to use it but the shitty flickering glasses where driving me crazy so worked one eyed or used Bue / red glasses. Since then I avoid all 3D work and lately that seams to be a lot less requests.

I just got my 12bit BM video card and a 12bit lut box and also have a guy that should have a lot better knowhow in this field then me to fly in and set it all up. I talked alot to the suport guys at BM and to me it sounds quite promising that I can both get a good rec709 and red2020 out of the setup. The 12bit 4k lut box is paramount as I understand. As the ultra extreeme card from BM.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I understand the E6 is nearly/abouts 75% Rec2020. From the article/post above it seems that the B6 has less capability to be calibrated, or that you need a out box for the E6? Seems it might be the latter, but not conclusive. Personally I don't want to be bothered with Rec 2020 below 80% and only want to buy above 90%, just a waiting game until real support. How are you suppose to tell really what is happening above 75%, I might as well go to P3. If either set could show me what was accurately happening in 90% of the space at a low peuce, I would consider it a good buy. At an E6 price I wouldn't want less than 98.6% of rec 2020, but then I'm stingy like vampire moths might he hanging out in my wallet

The white tile issue with OLED us interesting. I know it would warp your color space. I wonder if this greatly affects OLED potential native color gamut range?

BTW: Thanks Bjorn. I'm still waiting for Stacey. Imagine if the Pana oled screens were 1000 nits and 3-6 color tiles next year.