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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

OK... Film vs. RED

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Jannard

Jannard

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We may as well get this out of the way...

1. Cost of equipment- advantage RED
New 35mm film camera system= roughly $150K-$300K depending on model and accessories.
New RED ONE system= roughly $25K
Used 35mm film system= roughly $25K-$100K depending on age, model and condition

2. Cost to use- advantage RED
The RED camera is microscopic in costs compared to buying, processing and scanning film.

3. Dynamic Range- advantage 35mm film
Film is roughly 13 stops. The RED camera is currently 11.3 (although we are working on improvement in this area).

4. Resolution- advantage RED
Every industry expert I spoke with at NAB said that our footage was equal to or greater than 35mm film in resolution. If you want to hold this one aside until there are side by side tests... no argument from me.

5. Grain- If you like it, advantage 35mm film. If you don't like it, advantage RED

6. Convenience- advantage RED
Shoot a film load for max 10 minutes before re-load. Shoot RED for 2 hours.

7. Pulling a key- advantage RED.
The lack of grain makes it much easier to separate a subject from green or blue screen.

One of the biggest advantages that 35mm film had over digital was that it is "filmic". The biggest compliment that we received at NAB was that the RED camera was the 1st digital footage they saw that "felt right". I won't name names, but they are hard names to beat. And most did NOT have reservations.

Please be clear that we are NOT saying we are a film replacement camera. We are saying that we are a film alternative. Choose what you want based on which advantages matter to you.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
We may as well get this out of the way...

1. Cost of equipment- advantage RED
New 35mm film camera system= roughly $150K-$300K depending on model and accessories.
New RED ONE system= roughly $25K
Used 35mm film system= roughly $25K-$100K depending on age, model and condition

2. Cost to use- advantage RED
The RED camera is microscopic in costs compared to buying, processing and scanning film.

3. Dynamic Range- advantage 35mm film
Film is roughly 13-14 stops. The RED camera is currently 11.3 (although we are working on improvement in this area).

4. Resolution- advantage RED
Every industry expert I spoke with at NAB said that our footage was equal to or greater than 35mm film in resolution. If you want to hold this one aside until there are side by side tests... no argument from me.

5. Grain- If you like it, advantage 35mm film. If you don't like it, advantage RED

6. Convenience- advantage RED
Shoot a film load for max 10 minutes before re-load. Shoot RED for 2 hours.

One of the biggest advantages that 35mm film had over digital was that it is "filmic". The biggest compliment that we received at NAB was that the RED camera was the 1st digital footage they saw that "felt right". I won't name names, but they are hard names to beat. And most did NOT have reservations.

Please be clear that we are NOT saying we are a film replacement camera. We are saying that we are a film alternative. Choose what you want based on which advantages matter to you.

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, why oh why did you decide to open this can of worms?
:)

Jay
 
I know that, but this is an arguement you and I have already experienced on c.com.(We remember what fun that was!).. More importantly than that, it's COMPLETELY subjective. Impossible to nail down... RED is it's own look. It's a format unlike most others. Either people will like it and shoot it, or they won't. Same goes for film. To each his own.

Before everyone gets rolling here.. Just remember RED, 35mm film, 16mm, etc.. Are simply choices and there's no such thing as a "this one is the best". It's a matter of pick the shoes that fit you feet!

No one is saying RED IS BETTER. What they are saying is that RED is a good choice for those people it fits with.

At least that's what I HOPE they're saying.. Am I wrong Jim?

Jay
 
No... I think we are better. :-)

Jim
 
Jannard said:
The RED camera is currently 11.3 (although we are working on improvement in this area)
Click to expand...

So is this a confirmation that the release model of Red will have a dynamic range greater than 11.3 stops?
 
This board just seemed too quiet for my tastes...

Jim
 
How many pro stills Photographers switched from 35mm to Digital over the past 3 years?? Its a no brainer.

Useless info for you all....90% of photos in Japan are taken on Cell Phones...ekk!
 
Dear oh Dear Jim,

And so the great debate starts.. . did the little RED Devil tell you to go ahead and open this can of worms. Lol
 
I can tell.. You're jumping all over the figgin place posting like a mad man (Of course I seem to be doing to the same).

Wanna really get things hopping, how about sharing a story or two about your shoot with Peter Jackson.. I for one would love some behind the scenes stories.. There had to be some things you can talk about that would be cool to hear.

Come on Jim... Spill some beans.. Not about RED specifically, but just the experience of it.. What was it like when you saw this guys and suddenly realized you were shooting a world war I epic?!?!

TALK TO ME

Jay
 
I am soooo glad there is an alternative to 35mm film.....

thanks, Jim.

Doesn't matter to me what's better, but I'm gonna use Red.
 
Good point, Boothba.

In my opinion, RED has the advantage there. Film can be kept in great condition over the years, but it requires a lot of work and protection. All RED will need is a long-term storage device. While the options available today are ok... they're not perfect. The beauty is that old RED data can bounce from drive to drive and storage system to storage system until the end of time without losing one bit of data.
 
I really don't know what kind of competition this is. Being of the younger set / having shot digital since I was a kid and knowing an online NLE work-flow, film seems like a real legacy format that hasn't been abandoned because the people who grew up shooting it haven't died off yet. I feel like people often get really romantic with the format because all of their favorite films were shot on film, but in time that will change. And in time, the Hollywood system will hopefully become de-centralized thanks to online distribution and developments like the Red. And if it does, digital formats like the RED will be very important to the future of movie-making.

Neither the RED or any digital format is perfect. Digital has its own quirks that are unique to itself and that is fine. What it really comes down to (in my opinion) is the market... if digital distribution does change the way that films are made and theaters become less prevalent then movies will become more niche, make less money, but increase in quality because of sheer numbers. And, if movies are making less because of a re-defined distribution system then the ultimate deciding factor when it comes to telling your story won't be 1-2 gained stops of latitude, but price and familiarity.

And if the future is commanded by a bunch of young-guns, then they will be most familiar with digital, they will work around any quirks just as Hollywood filmmakers have been working around the quirkiness of film forever. Whats exiting is that possibly very soon the only factor determine a films success will be the talent and the quality of the storytelling (as apposed to the quality of a filmmakers contacts and marketing strategy). Imagine: in a couple of years our kids will grow up with 4k camera's that we pass down to them and are editing on our "old" 8-core Macs, uploading their features on iTunes and having showings at friends homes on mass-market 4k projectors.

Exited about the future.
 
Hi Jim,

I hope you are well rested after the ever long line of peolple thath you had to take care at NAB, fantastik show, I congratulate you and your Team.

I'm glad thath you feel RED is better, because is exactly how I feel.

I was looking for every option available and absolute best available quality was my main goal, no money issues here, I'm not a millionaire by any means, but I do have in off to invest in the best gear.

One of many once said, they say the graine look defaines film, by a vertue or difect.

I think He was sayng that maeby they can not get rid of so they embraced.

Personally I was very very impressed by the footage at NAB, and not just because PJ is my Idol but because RED showed me the best footage I have seen so far, maeby color was a little bit differente then my personal taste, but still stunning.

At end I can not stand still antill I get my RED's and make my statement about this camera telling my stories with it, and support you and your project all the way, and I can not shut up about it.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com
 
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