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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

OK... Film vs. RED

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Even though David Mullen doesn't like to bite on this sort of arguement, it's clear Jim did this for some fun spirited debate.. That said I hope David jumps into this nice and hard.. I want a pro film guy to slam his two cents in here.

Jay

Yeah.. I like RED too.
 
Very cool... it's interesting to see it all laid out like that. I can't wait to see what happens in here . . .
Hmmm . . . well, Brook, I actually don't expect much to happen here. Have you noticed the number of "mea culpas" and "softened" positions over at that other forum that have been posted, post-NAB? It's virtually a complete turnaround. Plus, this is RED territory. Few skeptics seem to venture here. At least this post readily concedes RED's capabilities, vis-a-vis film (latitude, grain, etc.). Jim laid everything out on the table. And there's little argument over most of those points. Of course, there's always gonna be that one die hard, off-topic poster who'll post, "It doesn't matter what you shoot on, it's all about story!"
 
You wanna make the arguement more interesting.. Let's look at the formats WITHOUT money as a consideration.

Here's the question: You have 10 million dollars, do you shoot RED or 35mm?

Can RED compete, and beat, film on a level playing field? (Helping Jim throw some gas on this fire)

Jay
 
Ralph... it absolutely is all about the story. But it is also nice not to have to shoot "around" the limitations of your equipment.

Jim
 
Some History:

Film manufacture starts 1880 by George Eastman
Digital Camera Patented 1972 Texas Instruments, first commercial electronic camera Sony Mavica, 1981

Film has had approx 100 years development head start over Digital's meger 30 or so years.

Processor speed approx doubles every 2 years. Do the math!

What will RED look like in 10 years??
 
Now, maybe there's room for my ancillary film vs. video argument. I think Ted said it best in the Apple demo video. To grossly paraphrase his statement, "it doesn't look like video, and it doesn't look like film--it's something different." I think "something different" is just great! Completely noiseless, high-resolution imagery will enable new styles of motion video and motion graphics design. I say, it's time for us to break some new ground, visually, with this new tool.
 
The future

The future

Imagine: in a couple of years our kids will grow up with 4k camera's that we pass down to them and are editing on our "old" 8-core Macs, uploading their features on iTunes and having showings at friends homes on mass-market 4k projectors.

Exited about the future.

Forget the kids posting home movies, I'm excited that I'm going to be able to have this kind of quality available to me in the near future:wink:

Tim
 
Me thinks Mr. Jannard, after 15 months of fighting EVERYONE except a few loyals, then proving his baby to be the real thing is going thru confrontation
withdrawl. hehheh.

I cannot speak of the advantages of 35 since I have never shot it myself, but this thread promises to be good with the likes of Mr. Mullen posting regulary.
 
This board just seemed too quiet for my tastes...
Jim

hey jim - any chance that you -might- show up in berlin the 6/28? that would certainly add >400 posters on reduser.com at once.

or ted or graeme (we would also accept kelly or noelle)... and "crossing the line" on a decent media which we could copy over to the 4k clipster?

there will be -plenty- off the german film!film!-tribe, there is a 4k projector, there is the oldest running studio in the world....
http://www.studiobabelsberg.com/
http://hdatwork.de/ (this link in is german only)

and we do have 3 airports here, btw, 2 of then have a cool landing approach (as you probably already know).

ah, and as you have already been bribed with whiskey - i would personally guarantee & supply -excellent- cigars.
 
Ralph... it absolutely is all about the story. But it is also nice not to have to shoot "around" the limitations of your equipment.
YES! Absolutely, Jim. To me, RED represents the holy grail of digital motion picture acquisition . . . FINALLY! Finally . . . no more excuses! FINALLY . . . no more apologizing for what my images could have, should have, would have been. I can now reserve all my excuses for my often-weak story ideas instead!
 
3. Dynamic Range- advantage 35mm film
Film is roughly 13 stops. The RED camera is currently 11.3 (although we are working on improvement in this area).

C'mon Jim spill it, are we looking at greater than 11.3 stops on the production model?
 
hey jim - any chance that you -might- show up in berlin the 6/28? that would certainly add >400 posters on reduser.com at once.

or ted or graeme (we would also accept kelly or noelle)... and "crossing the line" on a decent media which we could copy over to the 4k clipster?

there will be -plenty- off the german film!film!-tribe, there is a 4k projector, there is the oldest running studio in the world....
http://www.studiobabelsberg.com/
http://hdatwork.de/ (this link in is german only)

and we do have 3 airports here, btw, 2 of then have a cool landing approach (as you probably already know).

ah, and as you have already been bribed with whiskey - i would personally guarantee & supply -excellent- cigars.

But we have sheep!
 
I got sucked in a couple of times on that "other" forum and it brought out the ugly in me. But it's become really quiet now since NAB and I have to give some folks credit for admitting they were wrong.
 
Here's the question: You have 10 million dollars, do you shoot RED or 35mm?
Now THAT's probably the better question. In fact, an even BETTER question would be . . . You have $100 million to make a movie. Which would you choose, RED or 35mm film? With only $10 million, you could easily argue to use the bulk of that money for sets, etc. With $100 million, the stock and processing cost becomes virtually inconsequential.
 
Ralph... it absolutely is all about the story. But it is also nice not to have to shoot "around" the limitations of your equipment.

Jim

Exactly!!

About three years ago I was shooting a scene wherein someone comes to the door and has a conversation with someone inside, without being let inside...because that's what my story needed. Well good luck trying to resolve that kind of contrast with an XL1s! We tried everything we could but it wouldn't look any better than this side of dog sh!t. So, I had to cut the scene, and thus compromise my story, because my camera could not perform the scene.
 
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