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ODEMAX - where is the info?

roryhinds

roryhinds

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I'm sure I read awhile back that there should be more info on ODEMAX.

Could someone please point me to the latest news from ODEMAX and how the system works.
 
There are obviously a few delays in the whole thing, and it is very silent. But this is what we all wait for, I guess.

The info about the schedule is still in the original RedRay announcement thread.

We're well on our way to March.

But it will come, I am sure!
 
Field of dreams eh? Build it and they will come (no matter what you charge)? What are the Vegas odds on a launch of Odemax by the end of March? What are the Vegas odds on the Redray shipping ny the end of Feb? By the end of March?

Because of not a peep out of Odemax, nothing, I will assume safely that they are facing major massive problems on multiple fronts. Prove me wrong Odemax.
 
mark haflich said:
Field of dreams eh? Build it and they will come (no matter what you charge)? What are the Vegas odds on a launch of Odemax by the end of March? What are the Vegas odds on the Redray shipping ny the end of Feb? By the end of March?

Because of not a peep out of Odemax, nothing, I will assume safely that they are facing major massive problems on multiple fronts. Prove me wrong Odemax.
Click to expand...
Out for a Sunday Troll, are we?
 
No. I ordered a Redray a few days after it came out. I read all the Red announcements about it and Odemax. I watched Ted's interviews. I waited patently for Sundance and then we get one twitter and then absolutely nothing. I know the Redray will come sooner or letter. It treally makes no difference for me without some content. But at least they said awhile back they were adding a codec and improving some things and its hardware. Its OK.

But Odemax appears to be total BS at this point. Go read the first announcements. The press coverage, Shock the world. And now nothing to customers waiting The end viewer. Without us, they get nothing and this is how they treat me. How is that trolling? I am bitching. Not trolling. As far as they are concerned, they can consider me a bitch. I am not the only one who think they are a joke. Hopefully this will change and even if it doesn't competitors will enter. Remember Sky Pics? I will not mourn Odemax failing if that happens. They earned my disdain by their complete lack of communication with their end users.
 
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RED has a history of changing things at the last minute if they uncover a better way of doing it. They said all along that the holdup could be making the encode to .RED faster, so I'm guessing that could be the problem.

I'm not from the INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!! generation so I'm content to wait until they get it right.
 
it does seem strange that they are so quite.

I do think its poor that no announcement has been forthcoming when they states dates of announcements coming.
Even a "we hit a snag, please stand by" would have been a professional business courtesy. If you initially make a splash and get peoples attention its good to keep the communication going.

Perhaps the big players are trying to stop them, to stop the progress.
 
Elsie N said:
RED has a history of changing things at the last minute if they uncover a better way of doing it. They said all along that the holdup could be making the encode to .RED faster, so I'm guessing that could be the problem.
Click to expand...

Well, they'd better be careful.

Because I'm patenting "compressing 4K video fast enough for it to be useful" :)

If RED can patent "compressing visually lossless >2K raw-originated video in a camera at >23fps" surely I can patent "compressing visually lossless >2K RGB-originated video on a computer at >1fps" ?

The fine print will be something really broad like their "using any compression method such as but not limited to JPEG2000, H264, Huffman..."

How about "using but not limited to GPUs, FPGAs, custom ASICs, multithreading..."

Seriously, I now actually hope REDRAY fails.

Because if it succeeds, RED is going to come up with some idiotic broad patent for it like I have just described and then try to sue everyone else who ever wants to distribute high quality >2K compressed high-resolution video.

If you point to DCI cinema files or Youtube as prior art "they'll say well, Youtube's 4K wasn't high enough quality and DCI wasn't >2K (even though there were no 4K projectors for it to project to at the time it was invented)... our GENIUS is in combining both!"

Again, they won't try to patent a specific compression method. They'll just try to patent the combination of 4K with ANY compression method that is visually lossless.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce, you sound a little bitter... Maybe you should go patent some of those things, why not. But I'm not sure I understand the animosity toward RED here. It's not like Sony, Samsung, Microsoft, Apple, Toshiba, etc., etc.. etc..... have not all done the exact same damn thing over the years. And I still maintain that there is quite a bit to it than what you have stated. Notice RED is not suing Canon, Aaton, JVC, NHK or others...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Bruce, you sound a little bitter... Maybe you should go patent some of those things, why not. But I'm not sure I understand the animosity toward RED here. It's not like Sony, Samsung, Microsoft, Apple, Toshiba, etc., etc.. etc..... have not all done the exact same damn thing over the years. And I still maintain that there is quite a bit to it than what you have stated. Notice RED is not suing Canon, Aaton, JVC, NHK or others...
Click to expand...

If Sony had sued everyone else on really general patent grounds during the move to HD, yes I think it would have slowed down progress. It was really good that we had Panasonic, JVC, Canon, Ikegami, etc all competing. That pushed the industry forward.

It's purely about the generality of the patents combined with the willingness to sue. From Jim's comments, it's pretty obvious he wants to attack anyone else doing 2K or greater raw at 23fps with onboard compression.

No matter how the lawsuit gets resolved, it is damaging to filmmakers because it has a chilling effect on the industry.

A company that patents "compressing visually lossless >2K raw-originated video in a camera at >23fps" and sues people who do that

...will likely patent "compressing visually lossless >2K RGB-originated video on a computer at >1fps" and sue people for doing that too. Which will hurt distribution.

To me, the real excitement is in the startups and little companies. RED suing Sony hurts those the most.

Take a look at history - Edison's patent cartel (which was later ruled to be illegal) was actually the reason Hollywood got started - the move to California was partly to take refuge from Edison's patent gang!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce you are sooooo right.

I'm not dismissing the need for patents to protect IP but those that looks like the companies who wants to patent the DNA of human or nature.


Patrick
 
Bruce Allen said:
Well, they'd better be careful.

Because I'm patenting "compressing 4K video fast enough for it to be useful" :)

If RED can patent "compressing visually lossless >2K raw-originated video in a camera at >23fps" surely I can patent "compressing visually lossless >2K RGB-originated video on a computer at >1fps" ?

The fine print will be something really broad like their "using any compression method such as but not limited to JPEG2000, H264, Huffman..."

How about "using but not limited to GPUs, FPGAs, custom ASICs, multithreading..."

Seriously, I now actually hope REDRAY fails.

Because if it succeeds, RED is going to come up with some idiotic broad patent for it like I have just described and then try to sue everyone else who ever wants to distribute high quality >2K compressed high-resolution video.

If you point to DCI cinema files or Youtube as prior art "they'll say well, Youtube's 4K wasn't high enough quality and DCI wasn't >2K (even though there were no 4K projectors for it to project to at the time it was invented)... our GENIUS is in combining both!"

Again, they won't try to patent a specific compression method. They'll just try to patent the combination of 4K with ANY compression method that is visually lossless.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

Bruce, I think you are making a lot of suppositions of what RED intends. But look at it this way... if RED's patent is upheld you will not be denied the best way forward of making a movie. Even if all your (admittedly, outlandish) suppositions come to pass you will still be able to make the best possible movies. You'll just have to do it with a RED camera. '-)

It's not like RED is stockpiling invention to keep it away from the public On the contrary, RED is the company that puts their IP in the hands of customers as soon as it can be implemented. My feel-good about that stems from them doing it in a much more affordable way than the competition.
 
Anyhow...

This thread is going OT on a subject I had hoped could have been kept friendly alive...

There has been a lot of discussing around the issues Bruce raises, and point is - I guess - that we just don't know yet.
Outside this being an R3D issue.

What we DO know is that the ARRI case ended with a settlement.
I think that bodes well for the practical minds at hand.

Now... A semi public comment as to what happens with the Odemax idea, would've been nice... :)
 
I have no problem with Red suing, its their right. Nor do I have a quarrel with the Redray delay.

My BITCH is with Odemax and the dependence the redray has on it or something like it to make Redray a consumer playback product and useful for me.


Once IP is in the public domaim and no patent is pending, the IP is no longer the IP of anyone although a particular methodology for implementing the IP in the public domain can be patented.
 
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Bruce - let's be honest... you don't know shit about these patents and you are making a fuss about something you don't know shit about. Give it a rest and let things play out. Are you dead wrong? I have no idea but, then again, neither do you. You're bitterness and animosity is remarkable. Your willingness to characterize a complex issue with simplistic claims is preposterous.

And WTF does it have to do with Odemax and REDRay, anyway?
 
Bruce,

There is so much more going on here than you realize my friend. Did you know that Sony is trying to re write history and say they came up with raw recording for high end cameras? This law suit will make it a matter of public record that they did not, and that RED is the one who broke ground on all this, and that's one of the smallest reasons this is happening. Jim may like using the courts, but only if he thinks he can win.. And if the patent was as broad and over stated as you believe, no court would find in RED's favor. They will only win if RED can PROVE that Sony willfully STOLE their IP. Red is saying they were targeted, that's huge. The fact they have taken it to court means they believe they can prove it. I fully support red here
 
How this relates to ODEMAX is that again, we have a pretty simple and obvious idea:

"Very high-quality, compressed, >HD, >23fps video with content protection"

I was pretty much expecting this idea to become ubiquitous.

Not Sony-only. Not RED-only. Not anyone-only.

It would be awesome if some little software developer in the future comes up with a clever compression scheme and low fees and good distribution via a cellphone and keeps the big guys on their toes.

That is all I want. Until now I was cheering RED but now I've realized... whoa, hang on: they are just as likely to try to patent this whole thing / sue everyone to stifle the small guys as Sony is.

Enough on-topic for you?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
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