ODEMAX in the fall?

[Elsie N]

That's clearly an emotional conclusion as I seriously doubt that you've seen much (if any) material encoded in either of those codecs, let alone displayed under proper viewing conditions.

Heh, heh... yes, my statement obviously elicited emotionally charged particles, but while I have not been privy to any viewings of material encoded to .RED and played back via proper viewing conditions, many on this forum have and there are enough of them testifying to get me to add a hearty AMEN!

There is more to codecs - a lot more - than simply image quality and efficiency. There is the support issue, because wide support ensures further development of both hardware and the software codec itself, which ultimately increases both image quality and efficiency. There is the issue of deployment on commodity hardware, which is very much the roadmap for H.265 but as far as we know, not part of the roadmap for .RED. There is the issue of openness, in other words, general availability without large royalties and corporate permission, which once again, is in H.265's favor.

My intended point was that those who can, will. That is, those who know these things and can afford them will become early self-gratifiers, IMO. When they realize how long it will be before H.265 can give them 4k they will act just like those of us who bought the Seiki 4k TV/monitors and buy now even knowing the HDMI 2.0 will be the best solution... but who knows when that will be released. And when H.265 finally is released and becomes ubiquitous, I think the early adopters will find it wanting if what I'm reading is correct. .RED is now/almost now, H.265 is ?.

Personally, I see .RED as a specialty codec, specifically intended for use on Red's hardware, and intended to provide more reliable real time playback as a result. It is not intended for live streaming (as far as I know), and it is not intended to be open sourced. In other words, this isn't an either/or. There are applications for both, depending on what venue you're talking about.

I agree that .RED is a specialty codec... in the same way that Apple computers and OS are specialty items.

 

[mark haflich]

I don't think that's totally true, the bit about all about quality. Many of the quality fan boys are not using displays and display environments (shall we call it the display ecosystem?) necessary for high quality 4K mastering and evaluation. 39 inch and 50 inch Chinese 4K monitors?

 

[Elsie N]

I don't think that's totally true, the bit about all about quality. Many of the quality fan boys are not using displays and display environments (shall we call it the display ecosystem?) necessary for high quality 4K mastering and evaluation. 39 inch and 50 inch Chinese 4K monitors?

Mark, you should really consider cutting the umbilical cord that still connects you to SONY projectors. '-)

That is, if you are really serious about establishing credibility.

 

[Sergio Perez]

For me, I see it in another perspective: Odemax has the potential of being a revenue stream for Red content creators.

For example, I know for a fact that a short film or i dependent feature, using other web distribution channel like youtube or vimeo is an economical dead end- that is, unless you create a Jackass or other million hits wonder film. I'm not looking into doing that. The type of content I create I picture it being entertaining but at the same time requiring an audience that wants to experience something fullfiling in both the storytelling and visual aspect of it. In short film terms, its a Festival going, alternative cinema- as in open to other cultures cultures- crowd. This crowd exists all over the world and is significant. Odemax could package my short and make it available to this audience.

Red and Odemax should lobby film venues, Universities, and even cinema houses to add a redray player.

 

[Elsie N]

For me, I see it in another perspective: Odemax has the potential of being a revenue stream for Red content creators.

For example, I know for a fact that a short film or i dependent feature, using other web distribution channel like youtube or vimeo is an economical dead end- that is, unless you create a Jackass or other million hits wonder film. I'm not looking into doing that. The type of content I create I picture it being entertaining but at the same time requiring an audience that wants to experience something fullfiling in both the storytelling and visual aspect of it. In short film terms, its a Festival going, alternative cinema- as in open to other cultures cultures- crowd. This crowd exists all over the world and is significant. Odemax could package my short and make it available to this audience.

Red and Odemax should lobby film venues, Universities, and even cinema houses to add a redray player.

I agree Sergio, but with anyone being able to buy an encoder/decoder for $20, anyone can turn their content into .RED encoded viewables and upload to ODEMAX or whatever RED decides to allow for content access. So it makes sense that having a way to access that plethora of content (some of which will be upscaled, but hopefully will alert the viewer to that fact before he or she pays for it) will mean many, many channels of diversity.

Maybe they will do like REDUSER and make divisions for differing kinds of content so the content seeker doesn't get lost.

EDIT: I suppose ODEMAX can be 4k or even 1080p if they choose. That may be the reason for the 9Mb/s version so that even .RED 1080p can be streamed at its best. All supposition, but I bet they are way ahead of any and all suppositions we might come up with.

 

[mark haflich]

Elsie. The Sony 1000ES is the only 4K projector currently available before getting into the uber expensive high lumen commercial displays. It has been available for almost 2 years now and I have owned one for well over one year now.Mmaybe I should sell it and do my 4K upscaled viewing on a 39 inch or 50 inch Chinese monitor? OK Maybe a higher quality 50 inch display. Tell you what. I'll Fed Ex you some sour cream and onions for your Red herring.

 

[Elsie N]

Elsie. The Sony 1000ES is the only 4K projector currently available before getting into the uba expensive high lumen commercial displays. It has been available for almost 2 years now and I have owned one for well over one year now.Mmaybe I should sell it and do my 4K upscaled viewing on a 39 inch or 50 inch Chinese monitor? OK Maybe a higher quality 50 inch display. Tell you what. I'll Fed Ex you some sour cream and onions for your Red herring.

Heh, heh... thanks Mark but this afternoon is the beginning of my 24 hour fasting day. But by all means keep your SONY projector and don't include that in the FEDEX shipment with the sour cream and onions. I don't have a room big enough to properly use a projector in and I would just put it in the storehouse where it would await its eventual redundancy. '-)

 

[Corey_O]

Mark,

I don't understand whom or what is it you are most upset about? I'm sensing Odemax, Redlaser, and Redray in that order. I could be wrong but if I'm not I get this feeling that you take it personally that things aren't happening either fast enough or you were promised something and it hasn't arrive the way you wanted it.

To be fair none of these products are even in wide distribution and you are highly critical.

I respect your HT background but in this form you come off sounding like an angry consumer talking about a product that is still under development as if its in the market place and was done all wrong.
You criticize people in this form for giving new 4k monitors a look see as if the whole world is using cheap chinese monitors to edit and grade all work.

I think we all know the truth. The birth of 4k is here with some growing pains.

I could be wrong but I get the sense that you are most upset that you own a 4k projector and are sick of watching spiderman night after night.

I appreciate reading your opinions. I'm sure you're not the only one who sees it that way. Questions are good but unwarranted criticism makes you look weak.

JAFO

 

[mark haflich]

I am not angry about the Redray. I think its a fine product though it is too expensive to serve as a viable way of getting 4K content delivered to the consumer at home market. I do as a consumer have problems with the way Red and Odemax market to HT consumers. This is obviously changing as it should with respect to Red. As a HT consumer, I am very concerned about the technical quality of the 4K content that shortly will be delivered to the 4K consumer market. Bad technical quality will end up damaging the future of 4K. That is why 4K has to offer more than just 4 times the source and display resolution and regardless of the ultimate specifications for consumer 4K or rather 4HD, I am concerned about lack of regard I sense in the much of the Red community about the quality of the displays necessary for post and the size of the displays necessary to perform great post work. And BTWE I am not here to make friends. I've got Elsie and that's enough. Seriously, we disagree about a lot of things but I would eagerly buy his movie when he makes it for no other reason than wanting to support a friend. I will support Indy produced 4K content as long as it is something that interests me and providing I have a way of getting it and watching it that doesn't involve Odemax.

 

[Elsie N]

Mark,

I don't understand whom or what is it you are most upset about? I'm sensing Odemax, Redlaser, and Redray in that order. I could be wrong but if I'm not I get this feeling that you take it personally that things aren't happening either fast enough or you were promised something and it hasn't arrive the way you wanted it.

To be fair none of these products are even in wide distribution and you are highly critical.

I respect your HT background but in this form you come off sounding like an angry consumer talking about a product that is still under development as if its in the market place and was done all wrong.
You criticize people in this form for giving new 4k monitors a look see as if the whole world is using cheap chinese monitors to edit and grade all work.

I think we all know the truth. The birth of 4k is here with some growing pains.

I could be wrong but I get the sense that you are most upset that you own a 4k projector and are sick of watching spiderman night after night.

I appreciate reading your opinions. I'm sure you're not the only one who sees it that way. Questions are good but unwarranted criticism makes you look weak.

JAFO

pssst! Corey... keep this just between you and me but I've long suspected that Mark is actually here as a SONY shill, trying to hawk a few SONY projectors. Naturally one would want to downplay the competition and tout their own product, so nothing unnatural about that. I suspect that Jim and Jarred figured this out long ago but because of the SONY... troubles... I suspect that is why they allow him to continue unchallenged. This is all supposition on my part... that's why I ask you to keep it on the down low. Shhhhh.

 

[Elsie N]

... I've got Elsie and that's enough. Seriously, we disagree about a lot of things but I would eagerly buy his movie when he makes it for no other reason than wanting to support a friend. I will support Indy produced 4K content as long as it is something that interests me and providing I have a way of getting it and watching it that doesn't involve Odemax.

Awe Man!? Why'd you have to go and say that... now I feel bad about some of the things I've said behind your back...

Shhhh Corey... please don't tell Mark what I said about him?

 

[Corey_O]

I get it. Thanks Elsie.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I will support Indy produced 4K content as long as it is something that interests me and providing I have a way of getting it and watching it that doesn't involve Odemax.

Mark, we are in the midsts of producing a 4k motion picture serial to be distributed on the Odemax network. www.reduser.net/Rogue-River How do we get you a 4k copy so you can watch it?

I think it goes without saying that RED is working on a consumer version of RED Ray. A couple people had that confirmed at NAB this year. The bit rate/quality of RED Ray is quite an achievement and I think it makes sense to test it out with a more expensive Pro version to get all of the kinks worked out. RED Ray is something RED has put an INCREDIBLE amount of R&D into. I saw a demo of RED Ray at NAB 2009 and it looked stunning. RED had a working version 4 years ago and has just now shipped the first couple players. That should tell you something about how seriously RED takes this technology.

 

[mark haflich]

Right now I think many here are still waiting for Red to ship their Redray order. Because of the lack of content, I will be passing when Red offers to ship mine but would be interested in a much cheaper consumer version provided content becomes available and not from Odemax. I suspect competitors will emerge and I suspect that most any internet based content deliveror could offer most any content, running it through the Red codec first for delivery to the Redray and/or a consumer version thereof. As to your movie, I do not think it would be something I would enjoy content wise though my daughter might enjoy it. SD card or USB drive hard copy would be a distribution option with a core charge for return of the storage medium after download into the consumer Redray.

 

[mark haflich]

Awe Man!? Why'd you have to go and say that... now I feel bad about some of the things I've said behind your back...

Shhhh Corey... please don't tell Mark what I said about him?

Elsie. Just say it in public. I am insult proof. If you were married to my wife as long as I have been you would completely understand. You guys simply can not compete against her class and style of insults. So please fire away. I think I can more than hold my own.

 

[Elsie N]

Elsie. Just say it in public. I am insult proof. If you were married to my wife as long as I have been you would completely understand. You guys simply can not compete against her class and style of insults. So please fire away. I think I can more than hold my own.

Heh, heh... so which of you is the teacher and which of you is the pupil?

Hey! You said "fire away." '-)

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I will be passing when Red offers to ship mine but would be interested in a much cheaper consumer version provided content becomes available and not from Odemax.

I have read through this thread and somehow missed it, why don't you like Odemax?

You're not into the content of our flick, but you will watch Elsie's movie sight unseen?? How does he rate?!

 

[mark haflich]

As to Elsie, regardless of what his content is, viewing it will allow me better insight to his physic and allow me to better give him the help he so desperately needs. Your turn Elsie, take your best shot. As to Odemax, its their course of conduct to their ultimate end user starting with their Sundance launch and their complete lack of response to emails from consumers. Read their twitter posts and their pathetic attempt to gain content providers. Quick Quick before its too late become one of the first 100. 2K? Its OK. Whatever. I am not the only consumer by far who will never ever support them.

 

[Elsie N]

As to Elsie, regardless of what his content is, viewing it will allow me better insight to his physic and allow me to better give him the help he so desperately needs. Your turn Elsie, take your best shot.

Short moratorium while my wound heals... but I think you are self-inflicting by discounting ODEMAX before you even see it in action. I could see it if you chose not to support them after the fact, but like Justin, I just don't see the sense in ruling it out before seeing if they live up to the release notes.

 

[mark haflich]

Its not a question to me of how they ultimately deliver. Its their course of conduct in the past towards consumer end users. Nothing more, nothing less. Elsie. Didn't mean to seriously wound you and I know I didn't, just an all too easy shot at a huge target with a perfect set up pitch from Justin. He can be my pitcher in the home run derby anytime.