October 30th Announcement Feedback

[ericyoung]

It's buried in this thread, but Jarred explained it.

RED STATION is a base unit that connects via eSATA, FW800 or USB (for now, other interfaces as they become available). You can connect up to 4 media interface modules to it. So it is for offloading or interfacing to RED media. As an example, you can connect it via SATA and have two CF reader modules as well as a reader for 1.8" SSD mags and one for 2.5" SSD mags.

Would be good if the base unit interface was also modular in the sense that we can add say Light Peak or FW1600/3200 if/when they come out, without having to buy a whole new base unit?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

You can limit the amount of correction so the wild zooms won't happen, but the problem you describe could pose a hurdle. I have a solution to this I've been working on.

If you can get it to work I'd like it for rotoscoping.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Interesting times ahead...I think a lot of people are going to be re-thinking their equipment setups and camera techniques for what they shoot.

Post of the year Steve! That's why Im glad its rolling out as it is...
gives us time to make decisions accordingly.

For me its Stage 2 (as its unlikely we will be chosen for Tattoo, like you will)

Then we will just keeping adding brains as they roll out and acks for all the many configs.

Sure makes me wish we bought 2 low serial number RED ONE's instead of the one... as so many choices, means that much more opportunity.

 

[Christopher Nagel]

Since I believe Scarlet will commonly sell for less than $7,500,

Uh -- shyeah, I should HOPE so, since the pre-10/30 price was less than $3,000.00!! (Or was it 2k for $2k? SO so long ago...) ;-)

A "slight price bump" to me is like, ok, $3750.00? $4200.00 maybe?

I know, speculation = masturbation. I just had to counter that awful number of yours with something less painful!

Chris

 

[Michael Smith]

the biggest problem (for me)

the biggest problem (for me)

You can have full auto or full manual... you choose. But the manual controls are not the same as conventional.

Jim

Jim I really want to say thanks for considering the lower end clients like myself. You could have decided to only pay attention to the Epic customers who can afford to drop 'Epic' cash. Instead you really are providing a sliding scale of price, sensor size, and max resolution - making it possible for me and 1000's like me to shoot projectable feature films. I can't wait to see what people do with it. I know I might be saying some 'old-news' type things, but I'm new to the forum and I mean them. Truly thanks!

I think the biggest problem you guys have created here is 'which one do I buy?' I'm holding on to my cash (ie not buying something else) and will weigh the Scarlet options Nov 30th or whenever enough info is avail. In my price range it sounds like the 2/3 fixed will be amazing... but then if I ever want to try out some different lenses (maybe a tilt-shift) I'd need to do the interchangeable version. And if I'm doing that then I'd need to also weigh the value of waiting for the Scarlet S35 and the Scarlet FF35. And you can keep going with that logic and then at some point it gets way out of my price range.

Can anyone on here explain (or direct me to another forum post) the value of the larger image sensors in terms of the look of the finished shot? I get that a 2/3 inch is much smaller than an S35 or FF35, but what does that relate to in practical terms? Less light getting in and therefore more light needed to shoot? Does a smaller sensor cause more depth of field and therefore a flatter image? Or can that be a function of the lens and the available light? I know it might be a noob question but that's where I am. And I'm probably not in the minority for scarlet customers. I know enough to know I need to know more.

Oh - and I am also a noob holding on to a few grand waiting to jump on a list and get the lowest serial numbered scarlet I can get. (<--Jim)

I could maybe stretch my budget (and coax my wife) into affording a S35 Scarlet. But then I'm looking at the cost of the lens(es) to go with it. And sure the camera package can be build a little at a time, which I love. But (assuming the same skill level of the shooter) would my footage be substantially better to justify it? Eye of the beholder and what you do with it might be a great answer. Another great answer is to buy the 2/3 inch and sell it later to buy up.

 

[Derek Wan HKSC]

Dump Question

Dump Question

Please bear with me if this info has been posted elsewhere as I have no time to read through all 150 pages.

Has the Tattoo program started yet? Where do I sign up or apply?

Thanks for any help.

 

[alex lemon]

Please bear with me if this info has been posted elsewhere as I have no time to read through all 150 pages.

Has the Tattoo program started yet? Where do I sign up or apply?

Thanks for any help.

I suspect that if you are going to be in the tattoo program you have probably already heard from RED (speculation on my part). It is by invite only. Of course, "everything is subject to change".

 

[Jeff Hitchcock]

Dynamic Bio-metric tracking of faces or other selectable or user-assignable reference points could drive the focus motors on a platform like Scarlet. I'm sure this has been explored at Red and may even be successfully integrated into Scarlet's design. If not, this could be implemented in a firmware update, depending on how much surplus computational capacity is in the system.

Something like this seems like it would be great for a third party module. The brain sends image data to a module, module detects or recognizes face you have set it to track, determines distance to that face, then sends focus distance data back to brain along with monitor overlay information (so the system can indicate what face is currently being tracked on the LCD/EVF by putting a box around it).

All of the processing would take place in the external module, thus never using up any computational capacity on the brain. Such a system would of course depend on the brain being built in such a way so that module can take control of central functions such as electronic focus control. A module like this could even supplant existing touch-to-focus capability on LCDs with a touch-to-select-face feature. Hopefully the module system is built to support something like this and it is made available to third-party developers.

 

[Andy Roberts]

Does a smaller sensor cause more depth of field and therefore a flatter image?

I really like all the projected specs about the 8x Fixed lens 2/3 Scarlet. The only drawback for me is this issue. The smaller sensor does make it slightly more difficult to create that shallow depth of field that adds so much depth and emotion to images (still and video). There is a post in the Scarlet threads that talks about this in some detail. Short answer is that the DOF capabilities will be similar to f5.6 on a typical non-full frame DSLR from Nikon or Canon et al. Still achievable but you may need to bump up the ISO if there isn't enough light, etc. And this assumes that the aperture on the fixed lens is around f2.2. If it's lower, all the better.

Once you get up to the Scarlet S35, you are dealing with the near equivalent of a non-FF DSLR in terms of DOF. But what you lose is the high frame rates that the 2/3 has.

I know there are other trade offs, but those ones are the ones that I'm paying attention to. My wish list for the fixed lens Scarlet is an aperture of sub f2.2, but however it turns out it will still do more for less than anything else out there.

 

[Jeremy W]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Very exited about all the news and looking forward to the next announcement. I'm curious about something. Can anyone from RED reveal if CFast modules are being worked on in addition to the other recording media choices?

 

[Jannard]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Very exited about all the news and looking forward to the next announcement. I'm curious about something. Can anyone from RED reveal if CFast modules are being worked on in addition to the other recording media choices?

Working on all recording media options, including CFast. The beauty of the modules is that when something comes around that is better... just buy a module.

Jim

 

[Mark Pedersen]

All things with RED are naturally subject to change, but the features projected to be on the new RED Electronic Lenses have their pedigree and history in 35mm still lens industry, and to a lesser extent in the EFP/ENG lens industry. Features like auto focus, auto iris, image stabilization, etc. are 35mm still lens technology. AF and AI are also features on certain EFP cameras and lenses. None of those features (AF, AI, IS) were born, are used in, or are in demand in the cine industry.

There are many 35mm still zooms which breathe little, hold focus through a zoom, don't have image shift, etc.

In describing the new RE lenses Jarred compared them to Canon and Nikon - not Zeiss or Cooke:


"you will always be limited to the speed of the motors in any given lens. For some people that use Canon and Nikon lenses they are ok with that tradeoff..

The RED Electronic FF lenses are designed with motion tracking and motion recording as a foundation however, so the performance of those lenses in both motor speed, lens noise, breathing, etc. will far exceed ( we believe ) other electronic lenses on the market."

Jarred
10-31-09
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=40


These new cameras are positioned as DSMC cameras - and I believe in technology and utility the new RE lenses are aimed squarely at being DSMC lenses - a pefect match with the cameras to unleash the broad utility the DSMC cameras themselves enable. There also is no shortage of big, heavy, manual, expensive cine lenses in the marketplace. IMO the new RE lenses aren't targeted at competing with that market per se. Again, they're aimed at the combined DSMC and hybrid non-hardlined EFP markets.

These improvements in the RE lenses over usual 35mm still electronic lenses will naturally come at a premium. I don't expect the new RE lenses to be priced as low as the current premuim 35mm still lenses, but I certainly don't expect them to be priced anywhere near the level of cine lenses.

Interesting times ahead...I think a lot of people are going to be re-thinking their equipment setups and camera techniques for what they shoot.

Well said Gibby

<M

 

[JosephArthur]

Working on all recording media options, including CFast. The beauty of the modules is that when something comes around that is better... just buy a module.

Jim

Just a quick observation for myself . I never really looked deeply into Scarlet because it was a different price point (just lower) but the magnitude of interchangability is pretty awesome (ok I was not a big fan of Scarlett, just cause our kids can afford Epic X - so why go lower? And seriously never thought about getting one, except for the kids) - Well this really kick started my interest in Scarlett, the interchangeability of these modules. (WOW).

 

[MikeBarber]

The beauty of the modules is that when something comes around that is better... just buy a module.

Indeed, that is the beauty and one of the things that makes the new cameras a good investment. No more scrapping entire camera systems to upgrade to a better/newer technology. Upgrade the module. Talk about ROI!

 

[Joseph Hutson]

RED Team, what does the back of the bare brain look like? Meaning, without a module such as a REDmote. Every render shows a module if not a REDmote on the back of it...
:001_smile:

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Indeed, that is the beauty and one of the things that makes the new cameras a good investment. No more scrapping entire camera systems to upgrade to a better/newer technology. Upgrade the module. Talk about ROI!

Then again there is nothing to stop RED from releasing a firmware upgrade and a new side module for the REDOne either. It is also modular in that respect.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Something like this seems like it would be great for a third party module. The brain sends image data to a module, module detects or recognizes face you have set it to track, determines distance to that face, then sends focus distance data back to brain along with monitor overlay information (so the system can indicate what face is currently being tracked on the LCD/EVF by putting a box around it).

All of the processing would take place in the external module, thus never using up any computational capacity on the brain. Such a system would of course depend on the brain being built in such a way so that module can take control of central functions such as electronic focus control. A module like this could even supplant existing touch-to-focus capability on LCDs with a touch-to-select-face feature. Hopefully the module system is built to support something like this and it is made available to third-party developers.

Unless this module needs the full RAW image in which case there is no means of getting an uncompressed RAW signal out of a brain. I wonder if the module interface is even capable of those data rates.

I suppose it could use the 10bit 1080p signal.

 

[Jon B.]

Well this really kick started my interest in Scarlett, the interchangeability of these modules. (WOW).

second that.. really would like to give myself the option to roll with two cameras if needed.

 

[Jeremy W]

Working on all recording media options, including CFast. The beauty of the modules is that when something comes around that is better... just buy a module.

Jim

Thank you kindly for your reply, Mr. Jannard. I thought that would be the case.

I used to work in a rental house and we had an Arriflex 535B and 435ES, among other cameras. They are somewhat modular, but RED has taken the concept to a much higher level. The possibilities are very exiting. I'll be putting a deposit on a fixed lens Scarlet the day RED starts taking them. I was nearly seduced when we got our first A-Minima. Now I'm glad I saved my money.

I do have another question, again, if it's something RED is willing to discuss. The addition of an Ethernet port certainly opens up a world of possible functions and interfaces. Will the Scarlet be capable of operating as an IP camera and streaming video? I'm sure that a Scarlet is overkill for a network camera, and if it didn't have that feature I wouldn't be disappointed or deterred. However, I can see how it could be useful in some situations. And again I'm just curious. Thank you.

 

[David Dennis]

Uh -- shyeah, I should HOPE so, since the pre-10/30 price was less than $3,000.00!! (Or was it 2k for $2k? SO so long ago...) ;-)

A "slight price bump" to me is like, ok, $3750.00? $4200.00 maybe?

I know, speculation = masturbation. I just had to counter that awful number of yours with something less painful!

Chris

$7,500 was just the maximum amount acceptable on a credit card when the RED ONE came out. It had nothing todo with the cost of the Scarlet.

This might help you on the 2/3 fixed Scarlet. The original price of the brain was $ 3,000. Needed accessories like the CF module, LCD, etc, might bump that to $4,000-4,500. A "slight" price increase would be no more than $1,000. So I strongly suspect we are seeing about $5,000 for a complete and functioning Scarlet, certainly no more than $5,500.

However, I know Jim is an intelligent man and I have every confidence that his fecund creativity will come up with enough tempting accessories so that some people will spend $7,000+ for theirs.

To truly soothe your shattered thoughts, you might recall one of his recent replies (to one of my posts, yet) saying that those who think the Scarlet will cost $8,000 are ... I don't remember the exact words but it was something like making things up just to hear themselves think.

So be of good cheer. I'm sure he will come up with something cool we can afford .

D