Obsolescence...

[Marc Thorpe]

Are you serious?

Sergio, there is a very big difference in coming into the game at your stage and at the time I came into it. You were not promised anything with regards to your investment whereas the original core element of first RED One owners were sold into the idea that they would be buying into a future proof acquisition model. As one of the first 1000 to put my cash down in 2006 yes, I am deadly serious. I didn't then and I don't now knock RED in the product, what they have done is pretty awesome. I do however belong to a club of folks left with a somewhat unsavoury taste in our mouths having been sold on one premise to then be told a few years down the line to pay (through the nose) to keep up, or adios.

Alas, I see my post was struck from the thread so there is no point in expecting well mannered, well intended conversations unless both sides of the discussion are accepted.

 

[Med D]

Your post is missing but I doubt it was deleted purposefully. There have been way more strident complaints here than yours and I have never seen one deleted. Bit of a head scratcher.

Alas, I see my post was struck from the thread so there is no point in expecting well mannered, well intended conversations unless both sides of the discussion are accepted.

 

[Elsie N]

Your post is missing but I doubt it was deleted purposefully. There have been way more strident complaints here than yours and I have never seen one deleted. Bit of a head scratcher.

No, I think it was purposeful. Our First Amendment isn't recognized internationally.

 

[Eric Lange]

I think we have done a pretty great job upholding to Jim's original Obsolescence Obsolete mantra by moving our customers along both our evolutionary and revolutionary updates via our incredible upgrade program.

The DSMC2 camera brain really lets us extend this to a whole new level. Moving the connectors off of the main brain allows us to continuously grow with technology as they present themselves. It also allows us and 3rd parties to really extend our cameras by accommodating complete customization never before offered in this industry. XLR, Mini Jack, Min XLR, Line level, Mic Level, no audio, 1 sdi, 2 sdi, 6 sdi, HDMi no HDMI, PL mount Canon Mount, XPL, etc. etc. etc. Doesn't matter which flavor of connectors you prefer or which wireless devices you desire there is an opportunity if we don't make it, one of our great 3rd parties partners can.

I am not sure if this actually matters to any of you, but I am comfortable making a commitment right now that the DSMC2 form factor will stay the same until at least 2020.

This should give our customers some reassurance that they have some longevity in their purchases and also relieves some anxiety from our 3rd parties investing in manufacturing new bits for our cameras. There is of course some incredible new sensors and will be incredible new ASICS and internal boards that will greatly expand your cameras along the way, and of course our customers will be able to upgrade to those as they materialize through our upgrade program. But all of you can feel good about getting used to what your Raven/Scarlet-w/Weapon looks like in front of you.

There will be exceptions.. we will have some special cameras for special applications and we will continue to make some unique cameras for special customers like we always have.

At any rate, This is one of those internal discussions that probably should of stayed internal but It seems like it just might make for a good discussion.

Thank you all.

"I am not sure if this actually matters to any of you, but I am comfortable making a commitment right now that the DSMC2 form factor will stay the same until at least 2020. "

For US/we/I that was and IS HUGE... !

To me that's one of the things that impressed us the most was the thought that went into the design to have a form factor that would endure. We principally purchased the Scarlets so we could nail down the form factor for EPIC on UP for more advanced applications so that we could design specialized complimentary equipment and associated processes [I can't tell you how jazzed we were that Scarlet (in the end) turned out to be a "Slow" Epic] . At least I feel vindicated as some of our development partners were from time to time being rather fickle or easily distracted by what's immediately "New" from the "Others"... I am/really glad we stay the course.

Anyway... hat off to good and mature design that will endure. When you get it right you KNOW you've got it right. I would draw a parallel to the enduring nature of the Hasselblad form factor; well thought out good design does endure and serve well into the future. In my bones I know that RED has a real feel for that.

 

[Elsie N]

"I am not sure if this actually matters to any of you, but I am comfortable making a commitment right now that the DSMC2 form factor will stay the same until at least 2020. "

For US/we/I that was and IS HUGE... !

To me that's one of the things that impressed us the most was the thought that went into the design to have a form factor that would endure. We principally purchased the Scarlets so we could nail down the form factor for EPIC on UP for more advanced applications so that we could design specialized complimentary equipment and associated processes [I can't tell you how jazzed we were that Scarlet (in the end) turned out to be a "Slow" Epic] . At least I feel vindicated as some of our development partners were from time to time being rather fickle or easily distracted by what's immediately "New" from the "Others"... I am/really glad we stay the course.

Anyway... hat off to good and mature design that will endure. When you get it right you KNOW you've got it right. I would draw a parallel to the enduring nature of the Hasselblad form factor; well thought out good design does endure and serve well into the future. In my bones I know that RED has a real feel for that.

I actually had a different thought when I read that... thinking that things change so fast these days that the current form factor will be--dare I say it--obsolete by twenty-twenty.

We come from different disciplines so that explains our different reaction to the same statement. It's just that I'm thinking the Light field/multi-lens cameras are close. Exponential advancement does not favor a 5 year form factor, IMO.

 

[Jarred Land]

No, I think it was purposeful. Our First Amendment isn't recognized internationally.

Not sure what post your referring to since I still see all of Marks posts but let me assure you the First Amendment doesn't protect you here nationally either. This is a private forum 100% owned by me personally and has nothing to do with the United States Constitution. Private entities and private spaces are not required to protect your speech. Any moderator of this forum can delete your post for any reason good or bad right or wrong at their sole discretion .

 

[Elsie N]

Not sure what post your referring to since I still see all of Marks posts but let me assure you the First Amendment doesn't protect you here nationally either. This is a private forum 100% owned by me personally and has nothing to do with the United States Constitution. Private entities and private spaces are not required to protect your speech. Any moderator of this forum can delete your post for any reason good or bad right or wrong at their sole discretion .

Yes, from experience, believe me... I know. '-)

Oh, and it was Marc's post quoted by Sergio Perez that disappeared.

 

[Jarred Land]

Yes, from experience, believe me... I know. '-)

Oh, and it was Marc's post quoted by Sergio Perez that disappeared.

if you already knew, Then why did you make that statement? Just wondering .

 

[Elsie N]

if you already knew, Then why did you make that statement? Just wondering .

I was just offering support for Marc as a fellow "among the disappeared." '-)

 

[Elsie N]

Just a follow-up suggestion Jarred, when our posts are deleted, it would be a good-will sort of thing if the mod or mods would P.M. a poster that their post was being deleted for x-reason. When things are done uni-laterally without apparent justification, the mind wanders.

 

[Jarred Land]

I was just offering support for Marc as a fellow "among the disappeared." '-)

Ahhh.... So you offered support to him by taking a swing at me. Gotcha.

FWIW... I was not offended by Marks broad ethical statement as he phrased it politelty. But your accusation of some sort of rights violation... That kinda does .

 

[Elsie N]

Ahhh.... So you offered support to him by taking a swing at me. Gotcha.

FWIW... I was not offended by Marks broad ethical statement as he phrased it politelty. But your accusation of some sort of rights violation... That kinda does .

NO! NO! I don't even think of you as anything other than a good Uhmercun. But there is an International Mod that has been quick on the trigger to delete some of my posts in the past. I won't mention names because some of the latest deletions may have been done by another mod. That is why I would like for the deleting Mod to contact the deletee and explain why.

And as you say, you were not offended by Marc's post... but somebody was. I just think Marc should know who and why.

And as for suggesting the meaning I intended for my statement as a rights violation attack... not my intent. It was just a way of pointing out that some International mods don't seem to fully get that while not wrong necessarily, we here in our (mine and yours) country have expectations of knowing what offense our post committed to cause the death penalty.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Just a follow-up suggestion Jarred, when our posts are deleted, it would be a good-will sort of thing if the mod or mods would P.M. a poster that their post was being deleted for x-reason. When things are done uni-laterally without apparent justification, the mind wanders.

Sounds fair. This subject will always open old wounds, but wounds in time they have a habit of healing. I like RED, I like what they do, now, and Jim is one heck of a character but no-one is perfect. It just stings a bit when there was, and remain, some pretty sizeable nest eggs involved. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Elsie N]

Sounds fair. This subject will always open old wounds, but wounds in time they have a habit of healing. I like RED, I like what they do, now, and Jim is one heck of a character but no-one is perfect. It just stings a bit when there was, and remain, some pretty sizeable nest eggs involved. Onwards and upwards.

Jarred's in Japan now... go find him and hug it out. '-)

 

[Jarred Land]

Sounds fair. This subject will always open old wounds, but wounds in time they have a habit of healing. I like RED, I like what they do, now, and Jim is one heck of a character but no-one is perfect. It just stings a bit when there was, and remain, some pretty sizeable nest eggs involved. Onwards and upwards.

ill be the first to admit we arn't perfect... Nowhere near actually. But I assure you our intentions are always in the best interest of our customers even if you think we have failed and I am only here doing what I am doing because I have a genuine passion for the creative people in this industry and the products that we make for them .

 

[Levi Arnold]

I've had like two posts deleted. Seems like my posts and some that I've seen disappear were removed because of the ruckus or confusion they would cause or the confusion in the post. Sometimes better to wipe away and start from zero than figure out a mess of things. Anyways this is the Obsolecense thread not the where-are-my-posts-that-I-need thread.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

ill be the first to admit we arn't perfect... Nowhere near actually. But I assure you our intentions are always in the best interest of our customers even if you think we have failed and I am only here doing what I am doing because I have a genuine passion for the creative people in this industry and the products that we make for them .

And you guys do it well, not perfect but then perfection gets boring, trust me. Either way it is what it is, what it was. Could have been done differently in my opinion which may not be the opinion of others but that's the beauty of being able to openly discuss this with level headed, for the most part, folks who tend to have broad shoulders and are able to take one on the chin. No worries. Keep on keeping on.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Guess you've never met Jim. Guy seemed perfect to me.

He's a guy that made shades, now makes cameras. No pedestal needed.

 

[Elsie N]

And you guys do it well, not perfect but then perfection gets boring, trust me. Either way it is what it is, what it was. Could have been done differently in my opinion which may not be the opinion of others but that's the beauty of being able to openly discuss this with level headed, for the most part, folks who tend to have broad shoulders and are able to take one on the chin. No worries. Keep on keeping on.

In the spirit of level headed discussion, I stood up for your right to your opinion but I have to say I disagree with that opinion. If the company had stayed true to their original intent we would be shooting 8k from a 10-15 lb oil-tanker shaped camera (R-1). The upgrade path, while expensive to hike, has been better than the other cameras in my closet.

My fear is that they will not move away from current camera models quick enough.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Thanks for the honest input Elsie. When you plan a hike you do so with the intention to factor in stringent risk assessment. That can be simplified with a clear set of indicators, signs or signals. I never suggested any roadmap should have retained any form factor but if the form factor had remained the same we wouldn't be any the wiser. People would still be happy with the sensor advancements even if the wrapper remained the same, moot point. As for stagnant evolution, far from it I admire what RED has accomplished to date, I simply wish that evolutionary path had retained the signs we were sold on prior to commencing the hike.