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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Obsolescence...

Jarred Land

Jarred Land

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I think we have done a pretty great job upholding to Jim's original Obsolescence Obsolete mantra by moving our customers along both our evolutionary and revolutionary updates via our incredible upgrade program.

The DSMC2 camera brain really lets us extend this to a whole new level. Moving the connectors off of the main brain allows us to continuously grow with technology as they present themselves. It also allows us and 3rd parties to really extend our cameras by accommodating complete customization never before offered in this industry. XLR, Mini Jack, Min XLR, Line level, Mic Level, no audio, 1 sdi, 2 sdi, 6 sdi, HDMi no HDMI, PL mount Canon Mount, XPL, etc. etc. etc. Doesn't matter which flavor of connectors you prefer or which wireless devices you desire there is an opportunity if we don't make it, one of our great 3rd parties partners can.

I am not sure if this actually matters to any of you, but I am comfortable making a commitment right now that the DSMC2 form factor will stay the same until at least 2020.

This should give our customers some reassurance that they have some longevity in their purchases and also relieves some anxiety from our 3rd parties investing in manufacturing new bits for our cameras. There is of course some incredible new sensors and will be incredible new ASICS and internal boards that will greatly expand your cameras along the way, and of course our customers will be able to upgrade to those as they materialize through our upgrade program. But all of you can feel good about getting used to what your Raven/Scarlet-w/Weapon looks like in front of you.

There will be exceptions.. we will have some special cameras for special applications and we will continue to make some unique cameras for special customers like we always have.

At any rate, This is one of those internal discussions that probably should of stayed internal but It seems like it just might make for a good discussion.

Thank you all.
 
This is great to hear. Thanks Jarred.
Really excited to get my first RED and shoot the shit out of it for many years.
 
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After a few Weapon shoots I've had time to reflect on just how far DSMC2 evolved from DSMC. It's utterly impressive when you look at the whole entire picture. You've built a core building block that RED and 3rd parties can build upon to carve out unique configurations that can fit everybody's needs. With the shear amount of cameras announced at all of these price points within the DSMC2 lineup, some of which eat other top brands for breakfast and some that are alarming disruptive to much more expensive options, I have a good feeling about all of this.

Weapon, as far as I'm concerned, is currently the best camera on the market.

Viva la DSMC2. It's truly DSMC evolved.
 
This is great Jarred! One of the things I pondered and that kept me on the fence for a bit wrt upgrading to Weapon was giving up on the DMSC1 form factor, as I had a really well tuned setup that wasn't going to carry over. In the end the advantages outweighed the time and money invested in Dragon accessories, and the accessory credit was an incredible deal that just solved that problem for me (thanks!), but mostly I'm very pleased with the better image quality I'm seeing from Weapon. It's great to know that our investments in modules, rigging, plates, etc. will be useful for such an extended time. It makes purchasing several variants for specific builds (Gimbal, Full Cinema, Run and Gun) a lot easier to make when you know you won't have replace it all next year.
 
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Jarred Land said:
I think we have done a pretty great job upholding to Jim's original Obsolescence Obsolete mantra by moving our customers along both our evolutionary and revolutionary updates via our incredible upgrade program.

The DSMC2 camera brain really lets us extend this to a whole new level. Moving the connectors off of the main brain allows us to continuously grow with technology as they present themselves. It also allows us and 3rd parties to really extend our cameras by accommodating complete customization never before offered in this industry. XLR, Mini Jack, Min XLR, Line level, Mic Level, no audio, 1 sdi, 2 sdi, 6 sdi, HDMi no HDMI, PL mount Canon Mount, XPL, etc. etc. etc. Doesn't matter which flavor of connectors you prefer or which wireless devices you desire there is an opportunity if we don't make it, one of our great 3rd parties partners can.

I am not sure if this actually matters to any of you, but I am comfortable making a commitment right now that the DSMC2 form factor will stay the same until at least 2020.

This should give our customers some reassurance that they have some longevity in their purchases and also relieves some anxiety from our 3rd parties investing in manufacturing new bits for our cameras. There is of course some incredible new sensors and will be incredible new ASICS and internal boards that will greatly expand your cameras along the way, and of course our customers will be able to upgrade to those as they materialize through our upgrade program. But all of you can feel good about getting used to what your Raven/Scarlet-w/Weapon looks like in front of you.

There will be exceptions.. we will have some special cameras for special applications and we will continue to make some unique cameras for special customers like we always have.

At any rate, This is one of those internal discussions that probably should of stayed internal but It seems like it just might make for a good discussion.

Thank you all.
Click to expand...

That's only 4 years.... Epic was introduced in 2011 and replaced in 2015. Also 4 years.
 
Hint Hint Wink Wink

You've gotten so good about not spilling the beans Jarred I love it.

Some great hint's.

Thanks for the re assurance on the modular design. Not many companies are transparent and honest as Red.

Fanboy for life.

Thanks Jarred this is all great info =)
 
+1 on DSMC

And i like this "we will have some special cameras for special applications" :-).

11399861_387839404757073_206503309_n.gif

*Sorry Jarred had to share.
 
Thank you for all your hard work Jarred, I have no idea how you manage to keep so many different types of filmmakers on so many different levels happy and proud to own your product... that is not an easy task. I've waited long enough, I will be upgrading to Weapon soon.
 
This kind of info is nice to have when working with execs to sign off on gear proposals :-)
 
Perfect time reading this after receiving my Scarlet-W yesterday. Took it out to shoot a music video all day today and it worked flawlessly. Never have I had so much joy shooting a camera before and I loved every second of it. Thank you, Red!
 
Phil Holland said:
2009 announced:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?37011-October-30th

2010 shipped:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/first-hand-machined-red-epic-ships-gets-lovingly-toyed-with/

Though close to the end of the year.

DSMC2 announced and shipped 2015 through 2016. Jarred is saying you have 4 or 5 years from now depending on what you jumped in on.
Click to expand...

Yeah... but the whole Obsolescence obselete idea sounds silly to me. New tech and new ideas will along which make Obsolescence obselete impossible. Unless you're willing to stick with a certain form factor forever. It's just a marketing gimmick.
 
Milano Questa said:
Yeah... but the whole Obsolescence obselete idea sounds silly to me. New tech and new ideas will along which make Obsolescence obselete impossible. Unless you're willing to stick with a certain form factor forever. It's just a marketing gimmick.
Click to expand...

Milano... our customers have had the chance to upgrade their old cameras to new ones every step of the way since we began. That's what we mean by Obsolescence Obsolete. It's not a marketing gimmick at all.

Milano Questa said:
That's only 4 years.... .
Click to expand...

Minimum 4 years.. This world is moving stupidly fast. There is a temptation to just make something completely new just to keep up people's attention span and cycle time between new cameras seems to shrink every year. Even companies who's new cameras look the same as their old ones make their customers buy the new without that upgrade option.

Our DSMC2 roadmap is based around improvements, not replacements.


Ill give you just a small example.

On the DSMC2, We have a SPM ( Sensor Positioning Mechanism) just like the original DSMC1. SPMs are good because they let you adjust the sensor and give your sensor position a bit more tolerance. SPMs are bad because they let you adjust the sensor and give your sensor position a bit more tolerance.

So we are also working on an optional locked off internal Sensor mount for those that want it. You can still use shims if you need to, but you never have to worry about sensor movement. And it shaves off a ton of weight from the brain at the same time.

That is something you will be able to send your camera in to be upgraded to for a nominal fee.

There are a ton of little things like that we have planned for DSMC2.

And of course.. quite a few big things :)
 
That's great to hear especially from a new, soon-to-be RED user like me. I'm soon to get a Raven. I wonder if it will be upgradable sometime in the future? :)

I like the idea of improvements and upgrades - keeps brand loyalty and trust between consumer and brand. Bravo
 
Jarred Land said:
There will be exceptions.. we will have some special cameras for special applications and we will continue to make some unique cameras for special customers like we always have.
Click to expand...


Release a High Speed Dragon!
 
Thank you Jim, Jarred, and the RED team for making such great cameras, tools and staying committed to your customers.

I started out as a director with 1 camera, and because of your crazy upgrade policies, now I have a rental with 7. I'm sure it won't be long until I get past 10. Pandora, my RED One, will soon retire and will be placed in a glass case as a reminder of how far I've grown with RED.

You guys inspire me! Looking forward to continue growing with your crazy contraptions :D
 
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I love you guys and I know posting this is probably going to get myself into trouble, but calling it "obsolescence obsolete" really is a bit of a stretch and somewhat of a marketing label... I wouldn't exactly call it a "gimmick" though. Yes, it's a clever upgrade program that allows users to effectively upgrade their cameras and stay current if they can afford it but it's also a cleverly designed business move to keep your customers and transition them into the big boy's league. My problem with the latest Epic Dragon to Weapon Dragon is that the price is no longer an "upgrade" price - it's basically the price of a new camera. As I've understood - nothing from a camera that's being sent in is actually reused in the Weapon. It's not an upgrade - you're basically getting a new camera... I paid 17.500 for my Red One, then 5.000 for the MX upgrade, then 14.500 (if memory recalls) to go to Epic and then 9.000 for my Dragon upgrade (plus new accessories along the way). By the way - the transition from Red One to Epic was an absolutely AMAZING deal... But now - to upgrade to Weapon I'll have to pay another 29.500 plus the expense of upgrading a lot of my accessories (59.500 if I wanted to go for the CF Weapon). I know some people have paid off their Weapon upgrades in 3-4 weeks but not even professional rental companies in my market are able to pay off their cameras that fast. Some will definitely be able to do that, no doubt. Good for them!

Now - I'm incredibly happy with my Dragon - it produces amazing footage and I have happy clients but the current upgrade price for me to go to Weapon just doesn't justify it at all for me. It would probably be a much better deal for me to actually sell my camera and buy a new one all over again. If you want to truly say it's "obsolescence obsolete" then it should be a far better deal for me to "upgrade" instead of buying new. Just my 2 cents.
 
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