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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

November 3rd...

I’m not so much a foker or a f*cker but more of a 4k’er.


But for you…3k’ers would you really be soooooo disappointed that you get a 4k imager that windows down to 3k?


I wonder if there are multiple brain/dsp options that allow you to mix and match a bit more, so you can say I’ll use 4k imager with a processor that delivers up to 60fps. But with a different dsp you can get 120 fps. Or maybe you do get windowed 3k at 120 fps on a 4k sensor etc. If you need to go to 120 fps on 4k then that’s a different option. I am thinking the more cinematic pro type options just have more of the high frame rate related options?

I would have more need of something that shot 4k even at 30fps than 3k that shoots at 120 fps?

Fingers crossed for awesome capability at the S end of the DSMC functionality?

But that’s just me I’m just a bit of a 4k’er.

Ta.

Eric

I still have this feeling that Jim will be rolling out something/scheme or set of options that no-one has even mentioned or thought of here.

BTW if you are showing specs on the day i.e. Nov 3rd would be handy to see how easy etc. it is to take the front plate off so we can make a different mounting arrangement I.e. truly geek the camera out. Any vague explanation of rate, motion and skew might be helpful too. I.e. some indication of the stillness of selected stills (if that’s relevant would be super appreciated as well).
 
Anyway you cut it, the end of 2011 will be great for the consumer. So many goodies coming from all the manufactures. The sad part is that I may be holding off on a camera for a while. (Car issues, and I found a great deal on a house.) The gap between high end and consumer is shirking every day, well besides RED which is pushing the high end higher. Exciting times. Plus in December Lightworks is coming to the Mac and Linux. (Final Cut, why did you leave me!?!) I am so excited what 2012 will bring (Besides the End of the World.)
 
I didn't understand the people that said that it was a long wait this month, (here i was thinking it was the 3th of October...) :cryin:
 
Phil Holland said:
We have heard a whisper of what Nikon might be doing in the still camera/HDSLR world as well.

Now all of the announced cameras will likely play in different price point than Scarlet, but it is worth noting that we are still seeing filtered down technology and incremental upgrades.

As many suspected and what Jim hinted at, it would appear that the majority of manufacturers are focused on "Full HD 1080p 60fps".

The sad truth though is that 1080p at 60fps was achieved in 2010 in the consumer marketplace in a compact camcorder.

Now honestly, from a technology stand point and damn near two years later, how can manufacturers make us think that that's the best they can do?
Click to expand...

It was before that the Sanyo HD 2000 and fh1 hasd fullhdp60 28 Mb/s end 2008 Japan 2009 I think. Anybody with cameras before that? Before that the Casio had over 6 mp 60p burst mode in fx1 I think. Get the walking sticks out for the regular companies.
 
Wayne Morellini said:
It was before that the Sanyo HD 2000 and fh1 hasd fullhdp60 Mb/s end 2008 Japan 2009 I think. Anybody with cameras before that? Before that the Casio had over 6 mp 60p burst mode in fx1 I think. Get the walking sticks out for the regular companies.
Click to expand...

Ack! I forgot about that little gun camera. Good call.
 
if Sanyo was really around we would have likely had 3d as well, and maybe shd by now or shortly. One of the competitors of the industry is gone.

I can't remember too much, but however JVC has a nice little stills that does around 35Mb/s h264 fullhdp60 and 60 fps 8 or 10 mp stills, however 1/2.3 inch. It's processor can compress 4k 60 fps. There are now two. Ambarellas latest supper low power chip will record 16mp at 30 fps still.
 
Wake up Party People!

As great as the DLSR's are, they are NEVER going to be able to compete with Scarlet. No camera released this year will compete. None.

They can "Act" like it but its all smoke and mirrors, even if its mirrorless.

Let's not even talk resolution at all.

RAW and HDRx. Show me one DSLR that has these? Show me one? I'll wait. (Insert Valid answer in about 5 years)
 
Will there be an event that we can attend at RED Studios on Nov 3rd? It would be really exciting to witness history!
 
Eston Diaz said:
No camera released this year will compete. None.
Click to expand...

You may be overstating your case here - just a wee bit.

I mean, I think Epic is more than able to compete with Scarlet. :)

Also, Alexa-M and Alexa Studio are definitely able to compete. I think they are both new this year. Come to think of it ... when was the original Alexa released? Wasn't it post NAB 2011?

Red kicks ass ... so let's not exaggerate.

I do think people should take seriously the possibility that the Canon 11/3 announcement will be a game changer. They don't have to "out Red Red" to do that. They are a big company and can shake up the market because of that alone. Also, Canon believes in quality image making tools ... they might even manage to remember that once upon a time they were the ones with the passion and desire to change the market like Jim has today.

I'm still sort of expecting a S35 camera with Canon's 8 bit 4:2:2 codec recording to class 10 SDHC cards. I'm hoping they have a 10 bit version of that codec ... but I'm not holding my breath.

It will have uncompressed 10 bit 4:4:4 HDMI, and the HD-SDI model (which will cost $1500 more for no good reason) will support 3G SDI and offer TC in/out.

It will use a Canon EF mount ... but Canon will introduce video lenses for use on APS-H cameras. (So they'll work with Epic) The big deal with their video lenses is that they will have some attention paid to breathing, but probably not cine level quality, and they'll have longer focus throws, and they'll have an iris ring on the lens. That ring will allow smooth iris ramping in shot, but like their AF system it will be fly by wire ... to maintain control from Canon DSLR bodies.

It will offer 1080p, the question is what frame rate.

Now to the riskier "predictions"

You may be able to get 4K or QuadHD from one or more cameras in the Canon line-up. (If they do 4K, expect commodity SSD drives as media) I'd expect an RGB version, not RAW. I also expect they've been cranking on support for Premiere Pro and FCP X.

Somewhat less likely, they may introduce a higher end camera that is essentially the same thing, but offers a "Canon CinemaRAW" or their own version of S-Log. I expect that this will compete with Alexa or Red One ... not Epic.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
I'm still sort of expecting a S35 camera with Canon's 8 bit 4:2:2 codec recording to class 10 SDHC cards. I'm hoping they have a 10 bit version of that codec ... but I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...

That'd be great if they charged a fair price. But I won't pay the $12-15k they'd charge.
 
Josh Beadle said:
I have like a half dozen Lumix products. Love them for what they do. The GH2 with the Voigtlander 25mm / F.95 is simply amazing in low light and stealth street shooting. Shot some night video scenes at the recent Burning Man event that could not be done with any other camera at any cost. Keep the innovation and shipping coming Red - the race has just begun.
Click to expand...

From what I've been told, the GH2 cannot compete with the FS100 with an F1.4 lens in low light even with the Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 lens. The midnight footage I saw with the FS100 at F1.4 was the most impressive low light footage I have seen. There was barely any light other than the moon light and everything was clear and bright....and could be made to be quite a bit brighter than the human eye can come close to seeing. It's hard to believe the GH2 can equal the FS100.
 
There will aways be jobs where a DSLR is the correct choice..over any Epic/Scarlett that Red can come up with.

There are jobs where a go pro or even a flip camera is the best and correct camera for the job

There will always be jobs where Epic/Scarlett is the best choice

And jobs where film will always be the correct medium

My point is that resolution is not the only factor in choosing the best camera for the job.


So buy a few cameras....they will all pay for themselves... they always do.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
You may be overstating your case here - just a wee bit.

I mean, I think Epic is more than able to compete with Scarlet. :)

Also, Alexa-M and Alexa Studio are definitely able to compete. I think they are both new this year. Come to think of it ... when was the original Alexa released? Wasn't it post NAB 2011?

Red kicks ass ... so let's not exaggerate.

I do think people should take seriously the possibility that the Canon 11/3 announcement will be a game changer. They don't have to "out Red Red" to do that. They are a big company and can shake up the market because of that alone. Also, Canon believes in quality image making tools ... they might even manage to remember that once upon a time they were the ones with the passion and desire to change the market like Jim has today.

I'm still sort of expecting a S35 camera with Canon's 8 bit 4:2:2 codec recording to class 10 SDHC cards. I'm hoping they have a 10 bit version of that codec ... but I'm not holding my breath.

It will have uncompressed 10 bit 4:4:4 HDMI, and the HD-SDI model (which will cost $1500 more for no good reason) will support 3G SDI and offer TC in/out.

It will use a Canon EF mount ... but Canon will introduce video lenses for use on APS-H cameras. (So they'll work with Epic) The big deal with their video lenses is that they will have some attention paid to breathing, but probably not cine level quality, and they'll have longer focus throws, and they'll have an iris ring on the lens. That ring will allow smooth iris ramping in shot, but like their AF system it will be fly by wire ... to maintain control from Canon DSLR bodies.

It will offer 1080p, the question is what frame rate.

Now to the riskier "predictions"

You may be able to get 4K or QuadHD from one or more cameras in the Canon line-up. (If they do 4K, expect commodity SSD drives as media) I'd expect an RGB version, not RAW. I also expect they've been cranking on support for Premiere Pro and FCP X.

Somewhat less likely, they may introduce a higher end camera that is essentially the same thing, but offers a "Canon CinemaRAW" or their own version of S-Log. I expect that this will compete with Alexa or Red One ... not Epic.
Click to expand...

Very informative.

Well of course I'm not including the Epic. Its not the same level product.

Just based on my own fundamental analysis of the so called competition, the trend I am seeing, everyone has "flirted" with the idea but no one has even presented a viable competitor to what the original concept of what the Scarlet was.

Taking that into consideration, The Scarlet is not out yet. We know its going to exceed our expectations, either in price or performance or both.

The general MO of other companies does not compare to how Red does things. This has always been obvious. I'm a Day trader, if I could buy stock in Red, I would have owned it already.

They are a Bull company.
In these fearful economic times, the only ones who will prosper are the aggressive.

Red is aggressive.

The competition has the ability to be, but honestly, they are passive companies.

All that to clarify that my statment of Scarlet not having competition, although seemingly lofty to some, will be proven correct. Minus Epic of course.

I will rephrase.

No camera released this year will compete with Epic or Scarlet.

Barring personal preference and speaking strictly on specs.
 
The iPhone 4s is 1080p. I'm sure someone will make a film with it and it will get distributed.

That is not the question.

Content is King

That is not the question.

The question is simple.

Do you want the best Cinema camera you can get for the price, form factor, performance?

Yes. I personally don't care about random jobs.

I make films.

DSLR's are great, but honestly, very limited.

1080p is outdated and get diminshed with basic VFX.

More is needed.

No one but Red is offering more.
 
Lee Saxon said:
That'd be great if they charged a fair price. But I won't pay the $12-15k they'd charge.
Click to expand...

(For context, "they" is Canon from my post above)

I agree, they will probably charge more than I think the camera is worth ... but hey they might surprise the heck out of us.

I mean the 5DMK2 was a surprise to everyone, even Canon.

Its not a great camera, but the Canon DSLR craze is a craze because those camera's did a great job at their price point and delivered excellent value.
 
Do what u can with what u can afford, the point is to be a great storyteller! iI'm starting to hate this mine is bigger than urs mentality, ppl are getting so picky with everything.
I just compared a bunch of dslr, sony fs00, F3, and Epic footage online key word "ONLINE" and the reality is I had five of my friends watch each one back to back and they said they can barley tell the difference on the web which is true! I know u all want to future proof but let's not knock other stuff, RED is awesome but not the end all be all camera just like with every piece of tech, it is not the perfect camera but it is up there! All I have to say really is IMO... ppl are dumb spending 60k on a camera just for web distribution, seems like that money could be better spent just IMO??? Please don't get all mad and don't get me wrong I luv RED and Scarlet if the price is right will be perfect for any kind of distribution luv ya RED... and to all, remember it's how good the person and there crew is behind the camera more than the camera itself =)
 
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