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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nov 3rd Scarlet Prediction

Let me take a wild guess here:

Scarlet will cost $11,311
Scarlet will be 4k.
Scarlet will be fixed lens (at first...)
 
Whatever the case may be on the 3rd. Remember that the initial intention behind Scarlet was to provide a camera that will be available for a larger market.

Personally I wouldn't assume much at the moment as we have no idea to the R&D that's been going on behind closed doors. Red's hinted at a direction for Scarlet some time ago and we have seen a working prototype. However, the landscape is changing. Red has observed this. Those big companies have caught on to users desiring larger sensors. Now how much will they give us in terms of resolution, color, dynamic range, fps, etc.... We'll know in the coming days, months, and likely two years.

What will always separate Red from the pack is they landed on the high resolution, raw, hdr, high fps well ahead of the pack. This makes them very dangerous from a competing companies perspective that has yet to breach 1080p land.

We know Red will provide more than 1080p, that's a given. What we don't know is what price point and final feature set Scarlet (or how ever many versions there are) will be. Where Scarlet lands at the cost to the buyer could potentially change the digital motion picture camera landscape for years to come. Potentially placing Red in a David versus Goliath position. Red price/performance ratio is extremely high. Expect good things, but don't get nuts. Epic will be top dog in the Red lineup for some tmie. Red One might be an old man, but that old man has shot plenty of motion pictures and will continue to do so for a long time to come.
 
Paul Ellington said:
I saw the future and it was bright...
Click to expand...
You know what's coming? I won't ask for what because I know you can't say. But is this related to another thread where you accidentally shared something a picture or a spec? Again, not asking what it is, just seeing if you're speaking of what is coming :)
 
Marko Hocevar said:
If the Scarlet is still 2/3" on 3K I'm trying really hard but cannot think of what would blow me away on Nov3rd
Click to expand...

I have no idea if any of these are possible, but some vaguely possible things that come to mind:

- The fixed lens could now be removable.

- The sensor could be 16 mm or Super 16 mm instead of 2/3. 2/3 is 8.8 mm by 6.6 mm (in 4/3 aspect ratio). 16 mm is 10.2 mm by 7.5 mm (roughly 4/3 aspect ratio). Super 16 mm is 12.5 by 7.4 (1.69 to 1 aspect ratio), so that's almost 50% bigger. I'm no expert, but it seems like there are a lot of lenses that could be used in this situation. If they keep the same pixel density, resolution goes up to almost 3.5K for 16 mm or over 4K for Super 16 mm (probably not likely). If the pixel size is increased, then DR improves. Win-win, either way.

- The aspect ratio could be 4/3, providing slightly higher resolution for DSMC purposes (I really ike the concept of a multi-aspect sensor for a DSMC).

Just some wild speculation!
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
Please. I beg you...
Click to expand...

Want more? OK, but just cause you said please :-)
Would it be to much of a strech to say you actually claim this is just empty babble:

Jannard said:
So why do we post that so much?

We talk to you... straight up. Realtime. Just like "thinking out loud". This isn't the way other companies do it. And for good reason.

When we think out loud, we get a response. Often times those responses lead us to a better place. Which = change.

Because we think out loud, you are hearing from us early in the process. Because it is early, it can take some time before products are ready. In that time, the competitive landscape can change. Then we have to change.

Sometimes we are on a path, which we have announced (of course), and we find a better way. That = change.

Many times we announce a product, then realize that what seemed like a good idea... wasn't as good as we thought. Particularly when it doesn't measure up to "our new and better idea". That = change.

If you are a speedboat that never changes its course, you may as well be the ocean liner. Being fast, fluid and flexible means you have the ability to change. And we do.

Everything in life changes. We are just the only ones in this industry that seems to embrace the concept and be proud of it.

Don't let this approach frustrate you. Embrace it. In every instance I can think of, the change was better than the idea or product it replaced.

Now... put your helmets on and expect more change. Like the scorpion... it is our nature.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Steven Hammer said:
...

- The sensor could be 16 mm or Super 16 mm instead of 2/3. 2/3 is 8.8 mm by 6.6 mm (in 4/3 aspect ratio). 16 mm is 10.2 mm by 7.5 mm (roughly 4/3 aspect ratio). Super 16 mm is 12.5 by 7.4 (1.69 to 1 aspect ratio), so that's almost 50% bigger. I'm no expert, but it seems like there are a lot of lenses that could be used in this situation. If they keep the same pixel density, resolution goes up to almost 3.5K for 16 mm or over 4K for Super 16 mm (probably not likely). If the pixel size is increased, then DR improves. Win-win, either way.

...

Just some wild speculation!
Click to expand...

The sensor size of the 2/3" Scarlet has always been listed as 10.1 x 5.35 mm.
 
Steven Hammer said:
I have no idea if any of these are possible, but some vaguely possible things that come to mind:

- The fixed lens could now be removable.

- The sensor could be 16 mm or Super 16 mm instead of 2/3. 2/3 is 8.8 mm by 6.6 mm (in 4/3 aspect ratio). 16 mm is 10.2 mm by 7.5 mm (roughly 4/3 aspect ratio). Super 16 mm is 12.5 by 7.4 (1.69 to 1 aspect ratio), so that's almost 50% bigger. I'm no expert, but it seems like there are a lot of lenses that could be used in this situation. If they keep the same pixel density, resolution goes up to almost 3.5K for 16 mm or over 4K for Super 16 mm (probably not likely). If the pixel size is increased, then DR improves. Win-win, either way.

- The aspect ratio could be 4/3, providing slightly higher resolution for DSMC purposes (I really ike the concept of a multi-aspect sensor for a DSMC).

Just some wild speculation!
Click to expand...

2/3" HD is 9.6 x 5.4mm, Scarlet 3k 2/3" is 10.1 x 5.35 mm from last known specs. So far all of Red's sensors have been native 2:1 cinema ratio, kind of a trademark design feature for them. 8.8 x6.6mm 2/3" went out with SD cameras.

If the fixed is produced, it will be substantially as we have seen it. If it isn't, there is not likely to be a comparable zoom lens for an interchangeable model.

Something that hasn't been explored much as a possibility is a 3k S35/APSC model with absolutely stunning DR and sensitivity comparable to an F3.
 
David Rasberry said:
If the fixed is produced, it will be substantially as we have seen it. If it isn't, there is not likely to be a comparable zoom lens for an interchangeable model.

Something that hasn't been explored much as a possibility is a 3k S35/APSC model with absolutely stunning DR and sensitivity comparable to an F3.
Click to expand...

Couple of insightful points there. I *really* hope there's a fixed; that would be so useful on so many counts for me and many others. Bang for buck can't be beaten. Although I have to admit, given the apparently serious supply problems for lens components earlier in the year, and the subsequent hints of significant changes, ditching the lens could be the easiest way to get something into production...

On the second point... kinda like Nikon... D3x vs. D3s? Trade resolution for DR/low-light performance? Interesting notion... but my sense is that if it's S35 it's an EPIC not a Scarlet, and RED are no-compromise perfectionists; in as much as they can bend the laws of physics, and offer 5K *and* DR *and* sensitivity, they'll prefer to do that, and the name of thing they'll do it with is 'Dragon'. An S35 3K camera would be a retrograde step in many ways, and contrary to everything Jim has said about where he sees the future of the industry. And silicon real estate costs, whether you put 3K or 5K on the same size sensor; it wouldn't make economic sense.

I can't see any way they can announce an S35 camera on the 3rd and call it a Scarlet or sell it anywhere near the original price point, or even twice that price. I can't see any way they can fulfill the promise made to the EPIC-S crowd of 'the camera you want by the end of the year' unless they release an S35 camera.

So I'm just bloody confused and giving up and waiting for Jim.

All of the above presuming they announce just *one* camera on the 3rd - which is far from a wise assumption in my view. Or maybe they'll go for something intermediate in size between 2/3" and S35, and compromise with both Scarlet and EPIC-S people?

And, remember we're dealing with a visionary here. RED listen to us, yes, but they don't design by focus groups; what we get on the 3rd will be what JIM thinks we need. And he has a track record of being right...

Whatever it is, I'll likely want to buy it, and it'll take SSD. Will someone please sell me some used SSD? :-)

Mike
 
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I can see Red possibly producing a smaller S35 sensor 4k camera package in the Scarlet line that would price out and perform about like the original Red 1 for crop/compression vs frame rates.

I don't think this would be the only Scarlet though.

I like the fixed a lot too. What a neat Swiss Army knife of a camera.
 
Less than 10K...I've thinking around 8K just the body...if we get lucky it maybe Sidearm and SSD Module and they may release a CF Cards to SSD capsule (they were good enough for the R1 so on the Scarlet they should be still good)

it'll shoot 3K and we'll probably get even 120-200fps from it, maybe even get the same 300fps in 2K? HDRX will be apart of it... ISO 800 native, same form factor and all...

Potentially the zoom lens from the fixed is now a lens so we can get a set or the zoom?

The RED line up would then after this be Scarlet -- RED One MX -- EPIC,
One would go from a Scarlet to an EPIC but RED One can always be a stepping platform for those that want 4K but can't afford an EPIC and don't want to settle for a Scarlet...

The other thing would be that Scarlet is fully upgradable as they evolve, just like RED said, so I'm assuming added chip ugrades, as EPIC goes towards 8K standard or whatever RED deems the next leap Scarlet will step up to 4K/5K. Coming on par with RED One

For now it'll just be a simple 3K amazing camera with high dynamic range and all the goodies we love about EPIC shrunk down slightly but beefed up from than DSLRS into a form factor that is just perfect for different applications
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Couple of insightful points there. I *really* hope there's a fixed; that would be so useful on so many counts for me and many others. Bang for buck can't be beaten. Although I have to admit, given the apparently serious supply problems for lens components earlier in the year, and the subsequent hints of significant changes, ditching the lens could be the easiest way to get something into production...

On the second point... kinda like Nikon... D3x vs. D3s? Trade resolution for DR/low-light performance? Interesting notion... but my sense is that if it's S35 it's an EPIC not a Scarlet, and RED are no-compromise perfectionists; in as much as they can bend the laws of physics, and offer 5K *and* DR *and* sensitivity, they'll prefer to do that, and the name of thing they'll do it with is 'Dragon'. An S35 3K camera would be a retrograde step in many ways, and contrary to everything Jim has said about where he sees the future of the industry. And silicon real estate costs, whether you put 3K or 5K on the same size sensor; it wouldn't make economic sense.

I can't see any way they can announce an S35 camera on the 3rd and call it a Scarlet or sell it anywhere near the original price point, or even twice that price. I can't see any way they can fulfill the promise made to the EPIC-S crowd of 'the camera you want by the end of the year' unless they release an S35 camera.

So I'm just bloody confused and giving up and waiting for Jim.

All of the above presuming they announce just *one* camera on the 3rd - which is far from a wise assumption in my view. Or maybe they'll go for something intermediate in size between 2/3" and S35, and compromise with both Scarlet and EPIC-S people?

And, remember we're dealing with a visionary here. RED listen to us, yes, but they don't design by focus groups; what we get on the 3rd will be what JIM thinks we need. And he has a track record of being right...

Whatever it is, I'll likely want to buy it, and it'll take SSD. Will someone please sell me some used SSD? :-)

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike,

Hit up Marc Fisher, he was selling some 128's and 256's.
 
David Rasberry said:
2/3" HD is 9.6 x 5.4mm, Scarlet 3k 2/3" is 10.1 x 5.35 mm from last known specs. So far all of Red's sensors have been native 2:1 cinema ratio, kind of a trademark design feature for them. 8.8 x6.6mm 2/3" went out with SD cameras.

If the fixed is produced, it will be substantially as we have seen it. If it isn't, there is not likely to be a comparable zoom lens for an interchangeable model.

Something that hasn't been explored much as a possibility is a 3k S35/APSC model with absolutely stunning DR and sensitivity comparable to an F3.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I couldn't find any "last known specs" anywhere. Google failed me! So I was completely guessing.
 
Not sure why most keep wanting S35 when 2/3" is a better option for wildlife. I've shot with an S35 sensor and for wildlife---the images are great but depth of field is a huge challenge---razor thin focus and many shots are missed because of the short DOF. Also, for wildlife, it's nice to have a smaller sensor to give a larger crop factor when needed using 35mm lenses. 2/3" still gives a nice shallow depth of field if you use the right lens. A ton of great features have been shot on 2/3" so I'm in good company. Hoping for 2/3" brain on Nov. 3. My two cents.
 
Graeme Hay said:
Me three, but I can understand if there is a price boost, but hopefully Red doesn't price it out of my market, otherwise I'll likely end off going Canon (5Dm2 or whatever)... :(
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I've heard that a 5dmrk3 will not happen. But yeah beyond 6k and its a little too much.
 
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