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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Noise on the low end but even worse scary megenta lines

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think we should really wait for the new firmware ... i did so many shots yesterday, test gradings with stuff at dusk, ... i don´t see this MASSIVE drama with the noise and i am sure the new FW will help a lot to get even more out of the Raw ...
 

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Matt Ryan said:
I'm glad you understand now. I feel the same way about knowing how to shoot and didn't have noise issues with the old olpf. The calibration that accompanied the new olpf shifted the dynamic range a stop towards the highlights at the expense of losing a stop on the low end. So like you say now we have a noisier low end, and not just in underexposed areas.

Despite what another user here claims I said, I've never said I can't get good images out of it. What I did say was that if I had to shoot in a no light/available light situation I'd shoot with something else until a fix comes... It's not just grossly underexposed areas that are noisy now. I don't get how the noise goal post isn't activated at all yet I'm still seeing noise.
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Hi Matt!

You can get good images out of pretty much what anyone here posts, BTW...
 
David Battistella said:
Based on that 12800ISO chart that Jarred posted in another thread, i think that noise thing might be history at lower ISO's. As you drop it down from 12800 ISO I imagine that we will see far less colour in the noise and far less noise in general.

Excited to see what the new FW brings on the new OLPF

Battistella
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Where are these images? People have been talking about them, I haven t seen it yet.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I'm glad you understand now. I feel the same way about knowing how to shoot and didn't have noise issues with the old olpf. The calibration that accompanied the new olpf shifted the dynamic range a stop towards the highlights at the expense of losing a stop on the low end. So like you say now we have a noisier low end, and not just in underexposed areas.

Despite what another user here claims I said, I've never said I can't get good images out of it. What I did say was that if I had to shoot in a no light/available light situation I'd shoot with something else until a fix comes... It's not just grossly underexposed areas that are noisy now. I don't get how the noise goal post isn't activated at all yet I'm still seeing noise.
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Nothing personal Ryan. but you've got to understand the position of others. When you jump to "clarify" the ARRI camera's qualities while emphasizing you see more stops in the Alexa than in RED as you dismiss the charts that clearly show RED's DR being what is claimed... and then you tout the C-300 camera (is that still a sub 4k camera?) as somehow a superior cam for certain situations, well, you are drilling home something that few on here would agree with.

However, the few that agree with you are the ones who will go to other forums and quote your statements as fact and that REDuser is blowing up and angry because the Dragon is a failure. And while I do not currently do work for hire, someday I might. And I don't want some know-nothing client telling me that it's all over the Internet that the Dragon isn't a good camera and that he or she will use someone else unless I can use one of the 1080 p-shooters that are held as being better. The Internet is fueled by blurbs.

Think of it this way. What if someone kept stating over and over that Matt Ryan Hayslett can only shoot 1080 p-shooter cams and therefore should not be considered for any real work that requires anything other than point and shoot? I doubt you would like having that stated over and over.

Well, that's what you have been doing to Dragon owners, whether you are aware of it or not.
 
Elsie N said:
Nothing personal Ryan. but you've got to understand the position of others. When you jump to "clarify" the ARRI camera's qualities while emphasizing you see more stops in the Alexa than in RED as you dismiss the charts that clearly show RED's DR being what is claimed... and then you tout the C-300 camera (is that still a sub 4k camera?) as somehow a superior cam for certain situations, well, you are drilling home something that few on here would agree with.

However, the few that agree with you are the ones who will go to other forums and quote your statements as fact and that REDuser is blowing up and angry because the Dragon is a failure. And while I do not currently do work for hire, someday I might. And I don't want some know-nothing client telling me that it's all over the Internet that the Dragon isn't a good camera and that he or she will use someone else unless I can use one of the 1080 p-shooters that are held as being better. The Internet is fueled by blurbs.

Think of it this way. What if someone kept stating over and over that Matt Ryan Hayslett can only shoot 1080 p-shooter cams and therefore should not be considered for any real work that requires anything other than point and shoot? I doubt you would like having that stated over and over.

Well, that's what you have been doing to Dragon owners, whether you are aware of it or not.
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Don't take the bait Matt. The last RED User to have this debate with Elsie got banned at his request. I value Matt's contribution to this forum.
 
Zeb B said:
Does that "business model" include camping out on forums and picking hollow fights? Might want to consider a model that actually has a business component to it.

Those who aggressively defend RED also chase away interesting people who are turned off by the cult-like dialog by some here. It can make this forum a grey place of "yeah us" circle jerking

Take a week off and get some outside air - it will do you some good
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Hey Zeb, I could not agree more. If Red shipped cameras that caught fire, Elsie would be saying how wonderful it is that they keep him warm. These kinds of sycophants are not that interesting, not to me at least, no matter what the subject.
 
Zeb B said:
Does that "business model" include camping out on forums and picking hollow fights? Might want to consider a model that actually has a business component to it.

Those who aggressively defend RED also chase away interesting people who are turned off by the cult-like dialog by some here. It can make this forum a grey place of "yeah us" circle jerking

Take a week off and get some outside air - it will do you some good
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I actually sooo agree with you (not meaning anything about elsie)

But I hope to have this thread too on topic and productive.

My wish is that this place can be friendly not only to those who watch the oscar movies, but also to those who shoot them.

And that actually demands a bit of restraint... :)
And respect.
 
Zeb B said:
Don't take the bait Matt. The last RED User to have this debate with Elsie got banned at his request. I value Matt's contribution to this forum.
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Thanks Zeb, I put him on my ignore list so I can't see his posts. Don't care to. Really wish a mod would just go through and delete his posts, especially the ones that are personal...
 
Matt Ryan said:
Thanks Zeb, I put him on my ignore list so I can't see his posts. Don't care to. Really wish a mod would just go through and delete his posts, especially the ones that are personal...
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Matt, I think you are a great asset to this forum, and I really enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks for being here.
 
Zeb B said:
Don't take the bait Matt. The last RED User to have this debate with Elsie got banned at his request. I value Matt's contribution to this forum.
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Actually he got himself banned because of his attacks of a personal nature.

EDIT: I've just gone back through this thread and realized the person you were championing had deleted many of his posts. If he was such a sweetheart, why did he feel the need to destroy the evidence?

Robert Ruffo New said:
Hey Zeb, I could not agree more. If Red shipped cameras that caught fire, Elsie would be saying how wonderful it is that they keep him warm. These kinds of sycophants are not that interesting, not to me at least, no matter what the subject.
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I wouldn't go THAT far. '-)

But really guys, if you want me to go away, just keep the conversation constructive without unleashing any Rotweilers to attack Dragons until it is proven whether or not the firmware fix works or not. If it is unacceptable to some of the more proficient on this forum, then... RELASE THE HOUNDS! '-)
 
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If I point out a problem or a weakness in RED and then still recommend it for a project I'm far more likely to be taken seriously than pretending everything is perfect. My opinion would otherwise be seen for what it would be: bald faced advertising or fanyboyism. Even when I'm paid to promote a product I still tell some people "This isn't for you. This other thing would be much better for what you're doing." It's the one requirement I make when someone asks me to promote their product "I would love to, I love your product , but you can't censor my negative opinions about it. I'm going to be fair and balanced if it's not the right fit for them, I'll say as much."

Customers appreciate that and ultimately it's good for owners, it's good for the people selling the product and it's good for the customers. If the c300 is the better camera for a job, then an Epic owner should be promoting the c300. If a DP comes to me and asks "what camera should I use?" and I say "Epic" because I own an Epic and the job turns out bad because he needed cleaner low-light then he's going to blame the epic and I'm not going to get a rental ever again. If I say "My Epic is free but you might want to try out the C300 for this one, it'll be better since it's a night shoot." then the next shoot they'll come back and ask "The C300 was right on the money, what do you recommend for this green screen stage shoot?" And then I can say "There's nothing better than the Epic." That's a renter that'll come back. That's a renter that wont' have a bad experience with the "wrong camera" and decide that not that it was the "wrong camera for the job" but just a "bad camera". The Epic is not a bad camera, but it is sometimes the "wrong camera".
 
Martin Stevens said:
Matt, I think you are a great asset to this forum, and I really enjoy reading your posts.

Thanks for being here.
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Agreed, Matt always comes off as objective and fair with his insights and is a valuable member of RU. Can't say the same for some of the rabid fanboys on here. Seems like some people on RU have nothing better to do but shout down anyone who dare criticize a Red product in the slightest.

The mods should do something about it. People should feel comfortable to talk about Red products, regardless of whether or not they own one, without the fear of being intimidated and harassed. Otherwise, insightful contributors like Matt will simply leave.

If someone makes a substantiated claim about a Red product or shares an unpopular opinion you shouldn't be allowed to respond with pages of text that basically boil down to "stop not liking what I like". It's thinly-veiled bullying.
 
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Gavin Greenwalt said:
If I point out a problem or a weakness in RED and then still recommend it for a project I'm far more likely to be taken seriously than pretending everything is perfect. My opinion would otherwise be seen for what it would be: bald faced advertising or fanyboyism. Even when I'm paid to promote a product I still tell some people "This isn't for you. This other thing would be much better for what you're doing." It's the one requirement I make when someone asks me to promote their product "I would love to, I love your product , but you can't censor my negative opinions about it. I'm going to be fair and balanced if it's not the right fit for them, I'll say as much."

Customers appreciate that and ultimately it's good for owners, it's good for the people selling the product and it's good for the customers. If the c300 is the better camera for a job, then an Epic owner should be promoting the c300. If a DP comes to me and asks "what camera should I use?" and I say "Epic" because I own an Epic and the job turns out bad because he needed cleaner low-light then he's going to blame the epic and I'm not going to get a rental ever again. If I say "My Epic is free but you might want to try out the C300 for this one, it'll be better since it's a night shoot." then the next shoot they'll come back and ask "The C300 was right on the money, what do you recommend for this green screen stage shoot?" And then I can say "There's nothing better than the Epic." That's a renter that'll come back. That's a renter that wont' have a bad experience with the "wrong camera" and decide that not that it was the "wrong camera for the job" but just a "bad camera". The Epic is not a bad camera, but it is sometimes the "wrong camera".
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I subscribe to everything you've said. Yes, it's true... as long as you have that conversation between you and the client.

You are offering your opinion which may be right... or it could be totally wrong. That's why I say to leave such conversations off of public forums because, depending on their bias, a reader will pick up on a blurb you have written and spread it around as gospel truth, even though what you've written may be the farthest thing from the truth.

That said, I think good objective discussion about a complaint is a good thing. Because of Haase's initial complaint we have what looks to be a better firmware.
 
Time to close this thread.... way too many emotions and personal attacks flying. Warnings don't seem to have any effect anymore.
 
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