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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No excuse for 5K@24P on Scarlet

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All upgrades aside - this thread is about using the current Scarlet without any HW modification to provide more flexibility in that magic H x V x FPS (@ RC) ratio...
I can not wait for the v.4 of the firmware. I have high hopes that the 5K WS (or at least 4.5K WS) mode is coming along with all the other goodies...

Peter
 
Scarlet is a RED 1 in a modular style camera body, I don't think anyone is really going to see much of a difference in resolution. I think its funny to see people running to the bank to spend all their money on a 6K Dragon sensor as if they are sharing an account with Peter Jackson...4.5K is already old tech? Not good enough? I say thats all B.S. The biggest budget films yet besides HOBBIT were shot on RED 1 and that 2 times better than film! It wont matter if your camera is 6K, 10K OR 32K OR 100K!! The camera does not make you a better DP!! Your films will still be beyond great if you have good content!! 1K difference isnt going to matter much for a long time!!
 
Dan Frenkel said:
Scarlet is a RED 1 in a modular style camera body, I don't think anyone is really going to see much of a difference in resolution. I think its funny to see people running to the bank to spend all their money on a 6K Dragon sensor as if they are sharing an account with Peter Jackson...4.5K is already old tech? Not good enough? I say thats all B.S. The biggest budget films yet besides HOBBIT were shot on RED 1 and that 2 times better than film! It wont matter if your camera is 6K, 10K OR 32K OR 100K!! The camera does not make you a better DP!! Your films will still be beyond great if you have good content!! 1K difference isnt going to matter much for a long time!!
Click to expand...
i will never shoot a feature...or even documentary....probably nothing longer then 5 minutes....and even that will really be for internet streaming.....BUT i need to be able to pull stills....so i need the sensor to be as large as possible and have as much resolution as possible....RED has been trying to sell this since the R1 which really was not made for that at all....the scarlet/epic are made for that...with the prices down more and more people will want red for exactly the same features....high res stills, great looking, lower res video....
 
I was under the impression that the OLPF in Scarlet is too strong to allow higher resolution captures... So a HW mod would be required.

It strikes me as over simplistic and unfair to Red engineers to apply this simple calculation and conclude that Scarlet is capable based upon an extrapolation. Surely there must be other factors to consider like the OLPF, heat dissipation and reliability to name a few.

I don't know diddly squat about chip binning, but apparently they are speed rated based upon their ability to meet a minimum standard. Maximum reliable speeds vary from chip to chip, and they are not binned by maximum reliable speeds. It therefore seems logical that Red would have to individually re-certify the chipset in every Scarlet before they could reliably enable these rates/frame sizes. The possibility that this could leave some Scarlet owners out, or with a camera that was less reliable at speed would preclude this from ever happening.

Peter Majtan said:
All upgrades aside - this thread is about using the current Scarlet without any HW modification to provide more flexibility in that magic H x V x FPS (@ RC) ratio...
I can not wait for the v.4 of the firmware. I have high hopes that the 5K WS (or at least 4.5K WS) mode is coming along with all the other goodies...

Peter
Click to expand...
 
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Dan Frenkel said:
Scarlet is a RED 1 in a modular style camera body, I don't think anyone is really going to see much of a difference in resolution. I think its funny to see people running to the bank to spend all their money on a 6K Dragon sensor as if they are sharing an account with Peter Jackson...4.5K is already old tech? Not good enough? I say thats all B.S. The biggest budget films yet besides HOBBIT were shot on RED 1 and that 2 times better than film! It wont matter if your camera is 6K, 10K OR 32K OR 100K!! The camera does not make you a better DP!! Your films will still be beyond great if you have good content!! 1K difference isnt going to matter much for a long time!!
Click to expand...

It's about lenses too (without forgetting that 5k is 60% more pixels than 4K, and you really see the difference in resolution and noise, you should try). 4k is more cropped than 4.5k, 5k, 6k. 4k in red is inferior to S35 (sensor size).
 
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paul schefz said:
i will never shoot a feature...or even documentary....probably nothing longer then 5 minutes....and even that will really be for internet streaming.....BUT i need to be able to pull stills....so i need the sensor to be as large as possible and have as much resolution as possible....RED has been trying to sell this since the R1 which really was not made for that at all....the scarlet/epic are made for that...with the prices down more and more people will want red for exactly the same features....high res stills, great looking, lower res video....
Click to expand...

I used the R1 M a lot for stills...

Didn't really find it very limiting even under tungsten/lowlight...
 

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Couple more R1 m

But I guess they are unusable after the mx/Epic/Scarlet/C300/C500/sonys announcement/my divorce/Alexa studio 4:3/pricedrop/whatever...
 

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Scott Crawley said:
I was under the impression that the OLPF in Scarlet is too strong to allow higher resolution captures... So a HW mod would be required.

It strikes me as over simplistic and unfair to Red engineers to apply this simple calculation and conclude that Scarlet is capable based upon an extrapolation. Surely there must be other factors to consider like the OLPF, heat dissipation and reliability to name a few.

I don't know diddly squat about chip binning, but apparently they are speed rated based upon their ability to meet a minimum standard. Maximum reliable speeds vary from chip to chip, and they are not binned by maximum reliable speeds. It therefore seems logical that Red would have to individually re-certify the chipset in every Scarlet before they could reliably enable these rates/frame sizes. The possibility that this could leave some Scarlet owners out, or with a camera that was less reliable at speed would preclude this from ever happening.
Click to expand...

Scott - Scarlet already shoots 5K in Full Frame (exact same as Epic) - so OLPF is certainly not the factor at all. The issue is the frame rates. Scarlet does the 5K FF currently at 12FPS. Sacrificing vertical resolution I believe it can do 5K WS at 24 FPS. The sensor and the OLPF are identical to the Epic...

Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Scott - Scarlet already shoots 5K in Full Frame (exact same as Epic) - so OLPF is certainly not the factor at all. The issue is the frame rates. Scarlet does the 5K FF currently at 12FPS. Sacrificing vertical resolution I believe it can do 5K WS at 24 FPS. The sensor and the OLPF are identical to the Epic...

Peter
Click to expand...

Yes, I was confusing this with the 6k discussion, My bad. But I think the other observation RE: chip speeds, heat and reliability is potentially valid.
 
I hear you Peter, and I must say, very impressed with your patience and tact. Stay the course and perhaps you may get what you are requesting. Stranger things have been known to happen.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I used the R1 M a lot for stills...

Didn't really find it very limiting even under tungsten/lowlight...
Click to expand...

I think he is talking about stills. Web sized thumbnails do show the drama and lighting with the grabs from your short ( I liked it btw ) , but still cam people usually want to see the image quality as well.
I encourage people to post full resolution jpg stills. It's a bit of extra work to post a link and a thumbnail, but in this new 4K world, you kinda have to walk the talk.
 
sorry to keep pissing on your thread, but dear god man...you wanted 4k ws which epic doesnt even have and your mistakenly thought it did, and now your jumping up tp 5kWs 24fps, so you have the gumption that you should pay alot less but have the perks of the more expensive model, and all this presides on the mere technical possibility that is possible. Come now you should let Red decide what they think is best for their products and let this one go..:beatdeadhorse5: PS, seems you have an Epic already according to your signiture and that does what you want...
 
Sergio, I really don't understand why you keep coming back to this thread.
 
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