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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nice All-Around Zoom Lens for the 7D?

Jonathan Stevenson

Jonathan Stevenson

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Just got my 7D with the kit lens. The camera is awesome, but the lens (not surprisingly) is a piece of garbage. I love the 28-135 range but f3.5 is just not so great. Plus the thing is made of plastic, probably recycled from melted down Power Ranger action figures or something. I'm afraid I'm going to break this thing every time I pick it up!

So, I'd like to get a replacement lens. Eventually I'm going to outfit myself with the full Zeiss prime kit ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/wl/2DF8FC5474 ) but for now, I'd love to get a solid, useful, run and gun type zoom that'll satisfy the majority of my needs. The Canon EF 17-55 seems like a nice option with a good zoom range and f2.8. Anyone have any comments on this lens or can offer other choices? I'm also told the 15-85 IS lens is popular, but it's also an f3.5-5.6 and I'd love to have something with an extra stop or two if possible.

I generally will be using the camera for corporate training videos, sports videos and/or photography, and a few reality-type shows. I would love your help!
 
I end up using the EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM a lot for video. Nice all-around lens. Only thing to watch for is ghosting and flaring at night.
 
Tokina 16-50mm F2.8

+nice well placed focus grip
+cheap
+Focus stops at infinity

- needs stopping down a stop to be sharpest

TO me 16 is a proper wide, 50 can do a headshot or cutaway detail - pretty much all you need !

24 or 28 is imo too long a start point on a S35 chip for a general lense

Any longer than 50 is a challenge to handhold

S
 
Thanks guys. Yeah I totally forgot about the 24-70. The price isn't bad. Can you elaborate a bit on the ghosting? I guess I always thought ghosting was a senor issue... Maybe I'm thinking of something else.

That Tokina also looks good and the price isn't bad at all. So, wide open it's a bit soft then?

Any comments on the build quality of either of these two?
 
Yeah whether its softer than the res of the 7 is a different question

you can see it soften on 10X zoom

build quality is IMO highly suitable for use with film making - there must be a reason a lot of redders use its little sister the 11-16 or whatever it is

when in MF mode it is like a proper MF lens (very short throw of course)

stops
MF
Fat barrel

mine spine towards infinity nikon way BTW

S
 
For daylight work all @ f/2.8: Tokina 11-16, Tokina 16-50 and Angenieux for Leica R 45-90mm if you can still find used one as a gorgeous lens.

Primes for night and available light: Sigma 20mm f/1.8, Canon 24mm f/1.4, Sigma 28mm f/1.8, Canon 35mm f/1.4,

Canon 50mm f/1.4 and Canon 85mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.0.

A lens faster than f/1.4 is not always good for a low light just because it's of not so easy to shoot (especially handheld) with pretty tiny DoF (Depth of Focus).
 
I personally think Image Stabilization is a must if you do any handheld shots at all. It doesn't take away the hand-held look, but it does take away most of the rolling shutter artifacts from handholding while trying to get a stable shot. Gives it almost a poor man's steadicam stable shot look.
 
John Nguyen said:
I personally think Image Stabilization is a must if you do any handheld shots at all. It doesn't take away the hand-held look, but it does take away most of the rolling shutter artifacts from handholding while trying to get a stable shot. Gives it almost a poor man's steadicam stable shot look.
Click to expand...
Really? Interesting. I almost find that the image stabilizer in the kit lens makes the jello effect WORSE because it's overcompensating. I've played with a Zeiss prime on the camera and the jello seemed less than with the stabilized lens... Come to think of it, I haven't tried TURNING OFF the stabilizer on the kit lens.

At any rate, I like the sound of the Tokina right now, and you're right, that 11-16 is a big hit around here. The exciting thing about the Zeiss primes is being able to use them for the 7D and the Epic when they ship!
 
Well I have plenty of good rigs for stabilizing, so that's not really the problem. The problem is that the kit lens is someone's idea of a joke over at Canon USA :-)
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
Really? Interesting. I almost find that the image stabilizer in the kit lens makes the jello effect WORSE because it's overcompensating. I've played with a Zeiss prime on the camera and the jello seemed less than with the stabilized lens... Come to think of it, I haven't tried TURNING OFF the stabilizer on the kit lens.

At any rate, I like the sound of the Tokina right now, and you're right, that 11-16 is a big hit around here. The exciting thing about the Zeiss primes is being able to use them for the 7D and the Epic when they ship!
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I wouldn't be surprised if that really was the case, I've never used the IS kit lens. I picked up an 18-200 EF-S IS after I got my 7D because It was just getting too much "micro-jello" with my Tamron 28-75 f2.8 (even with the neck strap tension trick). The IS on that unit got rid of all that and I've never noticed it doing anything crazy during pans. Could be the individual lenses =/
 
Jonathan:

I have been shooting the 40D then t1i and now 7D as well as have had birger mount for RED since early 08 as a beta tester.

Probably the best lenses are the L zooms 24-70 and and 70-200, both f2.8 constant and good breathing performance on the 24-70. These are the standard pro lenses that almost every Canon pro uses on a day by day basis unless they need superwide (then the 16-35 plus the long teles). Both the 24-70 and 70 200 have rebates right now I think. You can also use the 10-22 on your 7D.

If you want IS the EF-S 17-55 F2.8 IS is excellent - basically an L lens but Canon doesn't use the L designation on anything but full frame lenses. It is excellent on the 7D and other "crop" sensor cams.

If you want some great cine-style manual lenses much cheaper than the ZE Zeiss's pick up some used Contax Yashica Zeiss - same optics and superb mechanics at a third of the ZE and ZF prices. You can use them with a $20 adapter on your 7D and for a few dollars more you can get them with AF confirm. (Your AF spots in the viewfinder will show up when subjects are in focus) Try this item number on ebay 220519641018 for an example of the adapter.

The beauty of Canon is that it has the shortest flange focal distance so you can use C/Y, Nikon, Leica, M42, Old Pentax M42, etc with these inexpensive adapters.


The contax/yashica zeiss 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 are the poor man's master primes.
 
By ghosting, I meant that when you aim the 24-70 at bright lights, you not only get flares, but "ghosts" on other parts of the image. This is typical of most zooms. Not a big deal, but I thought I should mention it.
 
Aaaah, gotcha. I was thinking of the sensor issue where you take a picture and find artifacts from the picture taken before it. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Michael Hastings said:
Jonathan:

I have been shooting the 40D then t1i and now 7D as well as have had birger mount for RED since early 08 as a beta tester.

Probably the best lenses are the L zooms 24-70 and and 70-200, both f2.8 constant and good breathing performance on the 24-70. These are the standard pro lenses that almost every Canon pro uses on a day by day basis unless they need superwide (then the 16-35 plus the long teles). Both the 24-70 and 70 200 have rebates right now I think. You can also use the 10-22 on your 7D.

If you want IS the EF-S 17-55 F2.8 IS is excellent - basically an L lens but Canon doesn't use the L designation on anything but full frame lenses. It is excellent on the 7D and other "crop" sensor cams.

If you want some great cine-style manual lenses much cheaper than the ZE Zeiss's pick up some used Contax Yashica Zeiss - same optics and superb mechanics at a third of the ZE and ZF prices. You can use them with a $20 adapter on your 7D and for a few dollars more you can get them with AF confirm. (Your AF spots in the viewfinder will show up when subjects are in focus) Try this item number on ebay 220519641018 for an example of the adapter.

The beauty of Canon is that it has the shortest flange focal distance so you can use C/Y, Nikon, Leica, M42, Old Pentax M42, etc with these inexpensive adapters.


The contax/yashica zeiss 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 are the poor man's master primes.
Click to expand...


Wow, great info here. Thanks a lot. That 24-70 sounds like a winner. I've never heard of those Contax primes. I thought I remember hearing though that those $20 adapters aren't very reliable or their quality can vary between units?
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
Wow, great info here. Thanks a lot. That 24-70 sounds like a winner. I've never heard of those Contax primes. I thought I remember hearing though that those $20 adapters aren't very reliable or their quality can vary between units?
Click to expand...

I have a couple of the cheap adapters and they seem fine, but haven't put a ton of mileage on them. It's a pretty simple device, basically the front is the same as was on a camera body and the back is the same thing that is on every lens.

Contax was Zeiss's SLR designed to improve on and compete with the original leicas. They partnered with Yashica in the mid 70s and Yashica was bought by Kyocera in the 80s. The Zeiss lenses were made in both Germany and at Yashica in Japan using the Zeiss glass and under Zeiss supervision. They stopped making Contax in 2005 as film camera business died. Zeiss took those lens designs and began making the Nikon mount Zeiss ZF lenses. The optics have also become the basis for the Zeiss compact prime movie lenses. There may be some slight improvements in coatings - but the c/y lenses have the famed T* coatings so probably not much difference. Probably the biggest difference is that they no longer use lead in the glass in order to comply with EU environmental standards.

The main thing is that - like the ZF and ZE - the C/Y lenses have very long and very smooth focus throws which means it is much easier to do smooth focusing when doing motion pictures, unlike the modern AF lenses for still photography which have short focus throws and not very smooth mechanical feel since they are designed primarily for autofocus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contax
 
On the 17-55 Canon vs the Tokina 16-50

You need to look at the physical construction - the 17-55 the focus ring is at the back (dont confuse it with the zoom ring) and skinny with no stops, whaeras the Tokina is fat and at the front

1460064598_5711ddd163.jpg


original.jpg



I can imagine the canon being a PITA with a FF or even just to focus by hand

That is why I went for the Tokina over that lens

THe canon 16-35 is a 'proper' L lense construction with the focus ring at the front and a bit of meat to the focus wheel

Canon_16-35mm_f2.8L_EF_usm_mark_II_lens.JPG


Why didnt I go for that over the tokina ?

Because I really like the look of a cutaway or interview at at least a 50mm and want to keep my lens changes to a minimum on RnG situations

Also cost is a factor - Im trying to keep my cash away from canon because the next great DSLR may be Full Frame (irreleventing a 16 for general use) and maybe not take canon lenses

Shooting more considered id use primes anyway so a short zoom is IMO a RnG lens - I want that range

-----

One overall consideration IMO is that once the Firmware is around for the 5d Ill be going back to using that because the performance of the short zooms is so much better

Both the 24-70 and 24-105 are great and provide a very good range on a FF chip

IMO FF looks best at F4/5,6 to bring a little DOF so the lenses really perform at those F stops creating another advantage over shooting around the 2.8 mark on a 16-XX lens

S
 
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I own a 24-70mm with my 5DII and on my last project where I did a lot of stylized zooms I recognized in post a brghtness lost of about half a stop on the longer end of the zoom. Is that normal? I don't think so and wouldn't like it. All shots and zooms in the same scene had to be graded individually to compansate the shift.
Also thank you for the Tip with the Zeiss -Contax/yashika lenses. They look great. But I seriously also consider to spend more money and get the new ZEs. It would be sad to not be able to use all the automatics options with epic. Also they have optimised Chromatic Abberation on the new ones. Wouldn't those new Zeiss lenses be the best choice for a Red FF sensor, cause all zeiss cine lenses would need a crop?
 
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