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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

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Tom said:
Jim, we understand. These things happen in business!

tom
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Indeed. It wouldn't be a bad move to publish a new time table in order to all reservation holders know what we can expect. Scheduling is all what we can do now. Even if the delay may be a couple of months or if we'll only have our RED ONEs in 2008. IMHO, the scheduling is the most important. We're grown-up people.

Besides, the RED digital cinema camera project is already launched and on a good way -- actually I hadn't seen such phenomena before over a professional camera, device or format (whatever !). Of course, to keep up the hype alive is quite relevant for the future sales. So, as I always posted over here, it would be nice to have more footage from the prototypes. We all know they're not production units.
 
kalone said:
In my opinion it´s more like 5 years. But the ultimate differences none of the other big guys can beat is pricing, user feedback and workflow.
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do you honestly think that in 5 years sony or panasonic would be releasing a 4K camera for $20,000, if RED had not come along? i'm pretty sure we would have been subjected to more relentless, torturous trickleware, instead of the new paradigms that are slowly gaining traction, like affordable larger chip sizes and an authentic solid state workflow.
 
Mike the beginner said:
I understand what your saying Jay. A liitle unfair Jay to say they have bitten off more than they can chew. They have taken a massive bite out of the world of digital cinema. A liitle indigestion is no real suprise is it, in fact they have already achieved miracles.

Mike the beginner
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Mike... Didn't you read the thread where is says you are not allowed to disagree with me? I forgive you this time... :clown2:

I don' t recall EVER saying they bit off more than they can chew. Check my post and quote that if I'm wrong. In fact I believe that Jim and the boys are perhaps the most qualified of anyone out there to pull this off.

What I did say is that an unknown release schedule while currently locked in a "hold" will only go on so long before the natives get restless (Me being one of them). I have no doubt the RED team knows this.. I just wanted to say, I know it too.!

I am not Jim's friend, I wish I was, but I'm not. We know of each other online and have traded a few basic E-mails, but he does not know me or my family. in fact I know a lot more about him and his numerous kids than he will know about mine. To put it simply, I don't matter to him in any other way than me being a customer. Perhaps if we meet someday that will change, but to call someone a friend, I need a little more "real world" interest on both sides.

I support the RED team, cause I like 'em and believe in the project. I also have expectations as a customer. I'm just saying that.. That's all. The RAH RAH RED forum is nice, but I don't think there's anything wrong with saying: "A delay? That's cool, but don't leave me hanging out here TOO LONG".

I don't want this to blow up to be more than it is, my post only looks negative cause we're grading on a curve and everyone else is being EXTREMELY supportive.

Make you a bet, get to June 25th with no schedule or answer about one and see if you don't see a WHOLE lot of posts like mine, but not so nice. We have started with the team, but in the end, we want the camera.

This may sound stupid, but I am aware others are reading this forum as well, and I want them to know, we have our heads screwed on straight. We may be fanboys, but we also expect progress and we are not following Jim blindly. We're smart, professional, and nice.. But we're not a bunch of mindless clones that have been paid to write letters of worship to Jim Jannard. We respect him because up to now, he has done what he's priomised and earned the respect we give him as well as the others he's working with. Now Kelly is another story.. I'll respect her no matter what! :) (God it would be terrible if we were married Kelly... Think of your name!!)

Ok I hope I do not get burned here.. I pray this is not coming off like I am bitching... My goal was a little straightforward honesty.. Hope it worlked

Don't do anything to me Jim..... I'm fragile

Jay
 
A schedule is useful also to not keep promoting the camera to producers for upcoming projects, getting them excited and then having to let them know that it will be around just after their project wraps.

knowledge of a realistic schedule will only help Red as we are also on the ground promoting the product to ensure out investments pan out.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
What I did say is that an unknown release schedule while currently locked in a "hold" will only go on so long before the natives get restless (Me being one of them). I have no doubt the RED team knows this.. I just wanted to say, I know it too.!
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No matter how restless the natives become they will not make this camera ready before it's ready.

Would you prefer they send you an unfinished camera? Would this make you more calm and happy?

Miltos
 
Miltos Pilalitos said:
No matter how restless the natives become they will not make this camera ready before it's ready.

Would you prefer they send you an unfinished camera? Would this make you more calm and happy?

Miltos
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Did we write that Miltos? I think it is fair and reasonable to voice a counter view here, or is that not allowed?

Of course I want the camera to be as good as possible, but some idea of timing would be helpful. All up this is still a fairly large investment (though relatively cheap of course compared to other products) and so getting the best idea of when that investment wil need to be made is handy.

I personally would be quite happy if it had to be delayed till next year, and the camera flawless in it's durability, quality and work-flow. As long as I knew up front that it would be the case.

Of course I also recognise that Red have not said how long this hold will be, it could be that we'll get a better idea very soon.

But I think it is a little unfair to judge another's reaction to the announcement. I'm no hobbyist, this camera is a business decision for me, and I do take these decisions seriously. It may define what work I am engaged in for the next few years. I have also paid a deposit already for both a camera and accessories. Would you buy any other product and expect to an open ended delivery date? I don't think so (but then I can't answer for you can I?)

...regardless. Keep up what so far has been a terrific endeavour Red team. I look forward to shooting a project on the camera.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Yes Miltos.. I would, I want the camera sent to me in 1,000,000 tiny parts that I have to pick up tweezers and keep the dog from eating.. After all, that was the point of my post right? I want the camera BEFORE it's ready...

I think what you meant to say (But failed to do it kindly) is that no matter the mental state of the customers, the camera cannot ship until it's ready to ship. Uh... Yeah... We know this. That was not my post so perhaps you were thinking of someone else.. My post was about the schedule or lack of it. Being in the dark for too long can be problematic. That's all.

jay
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I am sorry if what i said failed to sound more kind. Maybe i should use some emoticons.

There are a million reasons for RED NOT to announce a schedule before they are ready to announce one. It only takes for someone to stop being egocentric for a while to realize this. There are so many things at stake for this camera and its development team when all the world is waiting to judge with the most critical eye their product.

This company has demonstrated from day 1 that it has a different philosophy and a different relationship with their customers. Their openness should not be awarded with ungratefulness during the time they mostly need our support.

Like you many others including me have projects on hold that wait for this miracle camera. Projects that were build exclusively for this camera and what it brings to our work. Believe me, you don't want this camera more than hundreds of people here.

Be patient, respect the team. We are all boiling on the same pot
 
Actually Miltos I tried to delete this post cause I was being a jerk.. Glad you did not swing at the pitch... Thanks..

Yes we are all in this together, and I am NOT NOT NOT just bitching.. I had hoped my post would not sound that way, but I fear it will.. Some editing may be in order.
Jay
 
This is PERFECTLY NORMAL!!!!!

I'm very impressed by your honesty, your transparency, and by your F1 speed.

Guys...take some rest please!

I truly believe you're the fastests, but great realisations also take some time...NORMAL.

Cheers to all of you.
 
Please don't get me wrong all, I'm a fan boy all the way, I just think that Jay had a right to post that a delay made him nervous. Understandable, human even.

Regardless, I have the utmost respect for what Red is attempting. It's not often I'd get on board sight unseen for an imaging system, but then I've always had great faith based upon the people involved.

I used to have a rule to never buy a camera. So much for that. I guess its just too big a deal to ignore eh?
 
I had voiced a similar concern as Jays and I know exactly where he is coming from. It may sound negative, but to me I think it makes good business sense to pose the question. Jim has been very upfront with us, and I'm sure he expects we'll be pretty open and honest in return. As a customer, we're simply inquiring what this delay means for our own business plans. I'm woking with a director who's trying to decide whether to shoot 35mm or do some tests with Red and see if it fits the film's style. I've been hyping Red to him for a long time. If I know Red will be on hold for a while, I can tell this director to move ahead with 35mm, no big deal.

Having said all that, I respect Jim's approach as well. When everything is ready, that's when it will ship. We all have the option of getting our money back. It's not like we are locked in. I just hope they'll be able to ride the huge wave of momentum they have going for them right now. Of course, as long as there is no other company out there with a 4K camera for that price point, it will be fairly easy to keep people excited.

I know I'm still excited!

Steve
 
I'm with Jay on this one. There are a lot of business people out there who are worried about the vagueness.

We as customers are all shouting loud about our camera and how great it will be for a production, gathering momentum with future clients.

Hearing the words "Delay" causes panic with the unknowing of when the camera will show up. This is compounded with us having a schedule then not having one.

Its simply very hard to remain enthusiastic with potential clients when you don't know when you're getting the camera and as a business person you start to feel like you're following blindly which makes me uneasy in a professional market.

Delays are fine, the camera needs to be ready. But we need a date to work our business around.

And yes of course I'm still excited, but this is a serious business venture.
 
The only people who REALLY have any cause to worry about the delay are people with July and August productions who might have been able to shoot with the Red. How crushing to miss shooting your production with this amazing new camera. Everything else is just ants in the pants.

If there is a "oh shit we can't make the cameras ever" type issue, we need to be made aware of that. Otherwise, it's just logistics and I have confidence they will work things about.

Look at the resumes and relax. That's what I based my deposit on more than a year ago and as far as I can tell we still have the same dream team solving the problem.

That being said, people should hold the flames on Jay because it is not unreasonable to ask what's going on in light of a sliding delivery date and vague language on the subject.
 
IMHO this seems like a very valid argument and I'm pretty certain Jim, with his openness and inclusive approach to work, will not be inflamed in the least. Jay has a valid point and we all agree that we're in this with Jim, no matter what, but some sort of timeline wouldn't hurt either.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the PJ short in its entirety while we await some sought of firm updates from Jim and the team.
 
That is why I am waiting until I have the RED in my hands and have shot footage
with it before I proclaim to everyone that I will have a RED.
I will have a website showing the reasons to shoot with a RED but
producing slick RED websites is the last thing I will be doing.
Until potential clients have seen footage that YOU shot with your RED
it does not matter what you are saying on your website.
Even then you will have to show clients work that you produced using other cameras
to win any contracts you may shoot with your RED.
I understand and feel your frustrations but prudent business practices should be the rule.
 
What I'm Worried About!

What I'm Worried About!

Guys,

You know what I'm most worried about? I mean I was really taken aback by it.

It was actually Jim saying "the good news is the project is not COMPROMISED, just delayed". Compromised? I didn't think that word was in Jim's vocabulary. Seriously, the simple fact of him even mentioning this possibility struck me. Now I see it was edited out. Good thing.

Was this option ever discussed within the RED team? Was it ever an alternative, even a very remote one? I truly hope not. I don't imagine Jim even typing this word.
 
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