Newbie Questions About Nikon and Red

[Michael Schrengohst]

You'll probably use that 18-50 range around 90 percent of the time. Since the mount swap is a 15 to 20 minute process (according to Jarred, I think) I don't know if it's worth it. You wouldn't want to go that route on a job. If you're going to go with the Nikon mount anyway, then get the 17-35 (in the sticky above) and supplement with your super wides and telephotos. Personally I'm going that route at first until I can commit to the Red lenses permanently.

Ditto: if you are not sure and you are not going into the rental business
then try the Nikon/Canon route first. With the RED there is plenty to
figure out with regards to worlkflow etc. The last thing you want to do
is drop $7000-$15,000 more on cine lenses and worry about how
to figure out your cashflow. If you really figure out the RED and you get
some projects under your belt shot with the still lenses then by all
means purchase the RED lenses and sell your Nikon's on ebay.
And I am sure you could get top dollar for a Nikon RED mount as well.

 

[Dan McCain]

Just a reminder, pulling focus on nikons is really tough, and nearly impossible to do professionally, by measuring, guessing distance etc! I have been doing it for three years (along with other cine lenses) and can't wait to upgrade away from the nikons. They are OK with documentary B-Roll, talking head etc. but for narrative watch out! Especially if you are on a professional set where you can get fired for bad focus, just be warned!

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Just a reminder, pulling focus on nikons is really tough, and nearly impossible to do professionally, by measuring, guessing distance etc!

What lenses?
I havent had much of a problem with my nikons.
Curious to find out what lenses other people are using.

 

[Evin Grant]

Just a reminder, pulling focus on nikons is really tough, and nearly impossible to do professionally, by measuring, guessing distance etc! I have been doing it for three years (along with other cine lenses) and can't wait to upgrade away from the nikons. They are OK with documentary B-Roll, talking head etc. but for narrative watch out! Especially if you are on a professional set where you can get fired for bad focus, just be warned!

This won't be an issue. It's much faster to use the zoom in function on the Red, focus and set marks. We were using a pretty nice set of Zeiss Super Speeds on Mon. & Tues., even wide open, and this proved much faster and more accurate than taping. Most of the Nikkors have accurate focus marks if well maintained but It's not relavant anymore. As long as the focus is smooth and the throw adequate.

 

[Dan McCain]

Zakarree I dont know what you are coming from, 1st A.C., operator, still photographs, so I dont know how exact your idea of good focus pulling is. If you think nikons are easy maybe you are an excellent focus puller or maybe you never pulled difficult focus.

I have the following manual nikor lenses 16mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm, 135mm, 300mm with permanent focus gears installed.

I am talking about pulling focus with hvx200/mini35 with a rapper walking beside a dolly moving from 3 - 9 feet at random on a 85mm at 1.4. Or shooting with a 85mm 1.4 moving from 10 to 5 feet away from a subject on a stedi-cam with no marks. With cine lenses you have a fighting chance guessing distance. With nikons I never trust the witness marks, so I usually have to eye focus and you can focus with monitor but you will always have buzzes in the focus if you operate this way. Also the distance between the witness marks is so tiny on nikons that the slightest pull jumps between distances much quicker than on cine lenses so there is little room to finesse and small margin or error. If you compare this to the feeling of pulling on Cooke S4s, nikons are a nightmare.

Sure you can get the focus from point A to B but when the actors miss the marks you take an already challenging focus pulling situation and make it harder. People investing in nikons are probably going to have smaller lighting packages so you will be shooting at higher f stops and the depth of field with be compressed. Also dont forget nikons gears are reversed!

I am not saying I suck, I can typically operate AND pull focus on a 300 mm and keep a subject walking toward the camera in sharp focus for a good 6 seconds at 30 - 20 feet away. It is just very difficult.

 

[Evin Grant]

S4s have a very new innovation which extends the focus range over an almost 720º rotation this is not something most Red owners will have the luxury of affording. Nikons are not prefect but neither is a heavily used set of super speeds if they aren't collimated properly and I've seen that as much as not. It remains to be seen but I'd hazard a guess the Birger will offer the definetive way to use Nikon & Canon still lenses, electronic maping of the focus range to the desired rotation on the follow focus knob. Untill then we'll just have to deal.

 

[wshultz]

It seems if you could map the Birger to a full 360 deg. with 4000 plus motor steps, the throw will no longer be an issue. I'm guessing it will make these lenses very viable.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

It seems if you could map the Birger to a full 360 deg. with 4000 plus motor steps, the throw will no longer be an issue. I'm guessing it will make these lenses very viable.

Totally. The "issues" with SLR lenses disappear the minute you have computerized control over focusing (assuming the Birger mount works as advertised).

BTW, does anyone know if Sigma, Tokina and Tamron lenses work with the Birger mount?

 

[J. Bernard Vallon]

I'm betting birger is designing the system to work via the silent wave motor in the better lenses, as it is much more precise. The off brand lenses don't pack that kinda gizmo. Any one know for sure?

 

[Evin Grant]

Sigma does have some "HSM" lenses hyper sonic motor.

 

[Seung Han]

S4s have a very new innovation which extends the focus range over an almost 720º rotation this is not something most Red owners will have the luxury of affording. Nikons are not prefect but neither is a heavily used set of super speeds if they aren't collimated properly and I've seen that as much as not. It remains to be seen but I'd hazard a guess the Birger will offer the definetive way to use Nikon & Canon still lenses, electronic maping of the focus range to the desired rotation on the follow focus knob. Untill then we'll just have to deal.

Hey Evin, in your opinion how steep do you think the learning/experience curve will be from a mini-DV camera to focusing on a RED Zoom compared to a Nikon Lens on a Birger adaptor? For somebody like me, will focusing on a Red Zoom be a lot easier or comparable to the Birger Adaptor? If this is a real concern I would rather spend more and get the Red Zooms... Thanks for all your advice!

 

[Dan McCain]

There are people who make careers out of pulling focus for 35mm, so don't under estimate the skill involved. I would say however the zoom is probably going to be easier to pull focus on than nikons with birger. However your best bet is to hire a good 1st A.C.

 

[Seung Han]

Yeah, I fully intend to hire the best professionals, including a great DP and a spot-on AC, I can get for my projects. Still, I am in Korea and with the slight language barrier I want the most efficient hassle-free workflow possible I can afford. The reason I am asking is to gauge how much time I will be spending on repeated takes because of possible focus problems, because I will assume the AC and DP I work with in Korea might not have worked with still camera lenses on a Birger Adaptor. Its been my experience as a director I am always fighting TIME to get what I need for the day. On a small budget feature, I can't afford to introduce new processes to people unfamiliar with them while expecting the same results. If the differences are negligible, great. I will spend less money and still feel confident.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here and we'll find out soon enough. Just getting eager to fit all the pieces together...

 

[Finner]

On a small budget feature, I can't afford to introduce new processes to people unfamiliar with them while expecting the same results

Unless you hire a DP that already owns a RED camera with a team that is familiar with the camera likely they will be unfamiliar with the entire camera process and the birger stills adapter item would by far be the easiest part of the process to learn. I am not saying there will not be DP's that do not own the camera that will know it but I see for the most part at the begining owners being the most knowledgeable with the process and system.

 

[Finner]

This is my second post, and I am also a newbie of sorts that has just ordered a red. I am actually appalled at some of the crap in this post so I have been compelled to add me two cents. The red is an amazing project that does so many things to so many people on different levels. A cinematographer may buy one and get more work/upgrade his reel or some rich kid may buy one and make Jackass type films....that look like Lawrence of Arabia. I personally have graduated film school and am a fairly competent cinematographer but I certainly know one tenth of what a genius like Fennir, or whatever that losers name is, knows.

So the name is Finner by the way and if you had taken the time to actually read the posts you would have understood that I feel students (specializing in camera work) or or budding DOP's are probably some of the main people that should be buying this camera. It is Directors or people that have no clue how to actually use a camera that are crazy to be buying one. If a person can not use a pro-sumer camera to its full potential buying a RED is a clear mistake. I do not think you are a loser Mr. Wimp but maybe you could take some courses to help improve your reading comprehension (If those words are too big for you what I am saying is take a class to learn to read more better!)

By the way if you think some rich kid with no experience is going to buy a RED and create footage that looks like Lawrence of Arabia you really should go back to film school as obviously you did not learn a thing the first time at it. But I have a feeling you are not the sharpest tool in the shed but with your poor reading skills I could see how school would be tough.

Does it really offend you people so much that I may have a need for this kind of camera, and that it wont affect your precious jobs or rental rates. I am frankly sick of shooting and directing my own shorts and having them fall short of the competition just because my sony pd150 looks like a security cam.

The people that I mention concern to is ones that think simply owning a RED will be their ticket into the industry or think it will instantly make a lucrative bussiness for them.

I totally understand your desire to no longer shoot with a PD 150 and with your experience I think buying a RED is a smart move.

I shot a thesis film on 35mm that I spent my entire life savings on and it turned out to be the worst short film of the entire school year

Worst film of the year huh. WOW sounds like you have some real talent there MR. Wimp.

Frankly, I think you are just scared because all your friends are shooting 140 million dollar movies, and you are not. You are scared that some guy like me is going to come out of the woodwork because my storytelling abilities are better then yours, and now our work is on par.

I am not really worried that I am not doing $140 million movies yet as I know it takes time and experience to get there which I do not have yet but am working towards unlike some of you inexperienced dilusional people on here that think simply owning a RED will thrust you to the forefront of the who's who of filmakers.

As far as the part about how you will be a better story teller and create better films then me. Well you don't know me so I think it is a little obtuse for you to make such a statement. But from what you have told me of yourself it seems that you made the worst student film of your class so really so it appears that your story telling skills are quite amazing.

I look forward to using my RED to shoot better films then you can, and then taking my movie check and hiring you. This way when I am sitting in my directors chair I can laugh at you slaving your precious lights around the set while I sip my latte.

I feel it is important for everyone to put in their time schluping gear around as it is a good learning experience. I put in my time and no longer do that. As for yourself with your attitude, clear inexperience and poor execution (worst short film) I would think you would be very lucky if someone would even be willing to hire you to move the garbage on set.

I sent you a PM Mr. Wimp long before I came back at you with this post. I had hoped you would respond as the PM nicely asked you why you had made this post and I tried to explain that I believe you misunderstood me but after waiting and seeing you could not be bothered to reply I decided to post this. I belive you will remain a wimp for a long time as I do not see pimp in your future.

 

[Drew Mylrea]

Finner, stop being so mean. It's unnecessary and ruining the awesome Reduser vibe.

 

[Adrian T.]

Finner, it's not worth your time to deal with such kids...

 

[Evin Grant]

I just finished a Music video on the Red, alot of which I focused by eye using T1.3 Superspeeds, it's definately possible if you're patient. I don't see still lenses as any harder.

 

[Joel Kaye]

I don't see still lenses as any harder.

Have you tried out some Nikon SLR lenses yet? Or are you comparing to previous 35mm adapter experience?

 

[jbeale]

I'm betting birger is designing the system to work via the silent wave motor in the better lenses, as it is much more precise. The off brand lenses don't pack that kinda gizmo.

Is it really true that the Canon mount lens focus motors have precise absolute positioning? Or just relative positioning? Since the "in focus" condition is determined by the focus sensor in the camera, not the lens, the lens-camera system would work just as well without either one knowing absolute focus distance in terms of meters, feet etc. As I recall, the latest Canon flash units do factor in reported focus distance from the lens, but I think not all of the lenses support that.