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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Newbie Questions About Nikon and Red

number6 said:
Finner, I gather by your post that you are giving my videos 2 (middle) fingers up? Is that a positive "Nuts" or a negative "Nuts", general? But let's just say the review is accurate, which of course proves my point. These videos were not shot on a RED! End of discussion. Game, set, match to Number 6!
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Yes it is too bad because if your video's below had been shot with a red your point would be proved as a red would have made all the difference. I am sure your video's would have been oscar winning shorts had they been shot with a red.

Below are a few links to #6's work that will put us all out of bussiness or just go view his website at the bottom.

http://www.mallowmedia.com/Video_1.html

http://www.mallowmedia.com/Video_3.html

www.mallowmedia.com
 
The kernel of truth in Finners initial post is that if you are not making money making films, renting cameras or working in the camera dept, the arrival of your Red is probably going to change that significantly. So if you are not rich, please use a little bit of financial sense. The camera is just an element of your "Business Plan", some of the posts on this board seem to be unaware of that.

For Indies:

I don't want to stop anybody from making anything in 4k, lets see what you've got! If you can convince a film distributor that people will give you 2 hours and 9 bucks to share your brilliance in 4k...

For DP's

Everybody competes for DP's for jobs, it's about the reel and who you know and have worked with. The way I got started was buying a camera and shooting lots of stuff for cheap and free. ( Oh yeah, and learning EVERYTHIING technical and creative about cinematography that I could. ) The Red could be part of that plan, just be real about the finances.

Can we get back to lenses now ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Finner said:
Yes it is too bad because if your video's below had been shot with a red your point would be proved as a red would have made all the difference. I am sure your video's would have been oscar winning shorts had they been shot with a red.

Below are a few links to #6's work that will put us all out of bussiness or just go view his website at the bottom.

http://www.mallowmedia.com/Video_1.html

http://www.mallowmedia.com/Video_3.html

www.mallowmedia.com
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O.K.... TECHNICALLY speaking... they aren't that great. But c'mon Finner! A fharting goat? THAT'S content! n'ces pas?
 
Finner said:
A lot of members on here can answer a lot of questions someone would have about filmaking or tech info and openly give it and do what they can to help but I do not think some members realize what an insult it is to state that they are all fearful of a rookie with a red one.
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I don't know one DOP, or hell, even a 1st AC, that I work with that would have a single shred of fear of a rookie with a red. I agree with you. It is totally laughable.

That is why I don;t discourage people from buying them, even if they don't know shit about shit. Like I said, some of them will learn. Hey, maybe it's better to invest in a RED than college for some people, and it may take them farther.

Anyways, that's their business. I wish them all the luck in the world, but yes, I agree with you, IN THE FIELD I WORK IN (I stress that because I cannot talk about other areas of film with true knowledge) there won't be ONE single new person get hired because they own a RED.

High end commercials are who you know, what your reel looks like, and who you know. Did I mention they are who you know?

Anyways, I am not a DP, but still plan on putting together a RED camera package for rent. Why? Because of who I know. I will leave the lighting to the DOP thank you very much. And he will leave the data workflow to me. The DOPs I work with for the most part don't want anything to do with owning and renting out a camera (although some do), and even the ones that do, certainly don't want any part in the data management/video assist side of things.

Anyways, I digress. Finner, you're right, but too harsh. Nice to see your last post. Who gives a damn who buys a red? Like I said, your clients and mine won't go to anyone but a trusted source for their gear. Their jobs depend on it. If they can get a RED for $200 from joe blow, they simply ain't gonna do it. It's why (on the rare ocaasions they do it), when they rent HVX200s, they don't get that guy who will come out for $500 a day including his camera. They pay $250/day from a rental house they trust.
 
skipdivils said:
Finner, you're right, but too harsh. Nice to see your last post.
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I have actually chilled out in my old age. You should have met me 10 years ago, Boy that guy was a dick!:ohmy:
 
Rather than comment on he/she saids, I will make an overview statement and then go make lunch. There are those who work hard to learn their craft and do the daily work to put their talents to use. This takes a certain mindset and is not a bad thing.

There are others who see the way things are and say there are other ways to do things. They are the O.A. Demings of the world who say you do not have to have inventory on hand, as long as it arrives to the assembly site on time. Others are the oilfield wildcatters who will convince a group of investors that there really is oil in a place that the bean counters say is too risky to drill for it. They are the risk takers whose efforts may produce a dry hole, or perhaps open up a vast new field to explore.

Add to both lists of type, RED camera users. Yes, the camera will be used in the traditional way for a time to come. But it will only take one really good software algorithm (Campaign slogan for 2000... I've got that Al Gore Rhythm) to make it possible for a couple of people shooting with a RED to wirelessly transfer RAW data into 100 TB holograph or similar storage device, and then do the post work like a pro in record time.

Those of us who have not had our brains washed over with old technology will be more amenable to accepting new ways of proceeding. Those who think the Edsel will last forever will not, and they will simply become opaque. Sure, they have nothing to worry about at present and for an undetermined time to come. And I think it will not be evident when it happens, but I believe it will happen.

So, should anyone fear the undaunted digital recordist who can do it faster, cheaper, better? Who knows? What difference does it make? You can't change history. You can only affect the path that will become history. So if you think everything stays the same, do nothing to prepare for change.

In the end, the only thing I think that we can really say will be necessary for ALL time to come is.... home cooking. And I feel the necessity for some of that right now.
 
skipdivils said:
I don't know one DOP, or hell, even a 1st AC, that I work with that would have a single shred of fear of a rookie with a red. I agree with you. It is totally laughable.
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I think you guys are right. The big hope for newbies needs to be to build their own network of clients. They'll start out working free on low risk projects. Fail/Succeed/Meet People... those people know other people - repeat. If they're good they'll build a business. RED's a great tool.

Take your minds out of LA or NY for a moment. There are A LOT of medium sized towns around the world that MIGHT have one RED if they are lucky. Having a RED will get you in the conversation. If you're an idiot and can't get along with people it won't matter much.

To me, buying a RED and shooting the hell out of it for a year until you create your network and then selling your RED isn't a bad plan. My experience has been I don't learn something well until I'm immersed in it. It's tough to get that renting. Some guys will get years of RED experience jammed into 6 months of ownership. Certainly more experience than you'd get at film school.

Maybe you'll lose $5k but start a career. Or move on to something else because it didn't work out. It's good either way. A lot guys lose $100k on film school and never do anything in the industry. And not own a camera they can bail out of.

A friend of mine was an A.D. for years and he used to tell me he always had 50 guys deep lined up for grip jobs because it was so hard to get on film crew. Another guy told me a friend of his worked for 2 years for free as a grip before he ever got paid... then he got in the Union in made really good money.

Do those sound like better plans than buying a RED?

And having RED in the first year is really the best time to take the gamble. Maybe you find out you're a zen level colorist. Every RED is going to need one.
 
Guys, Lets be cool here..
This camera was made for the underdog.
but it was also made for the superstar.
That is the amazing thing!
a 10 year old can shoot amazing footage (speculating he has an eye for composition)
a seasoned veteran of digital cinema can shoot this thing..
This tool is just A TOOL.
Learn it. use it. and master it!
make some beautiful films.
Everyone has the right to make movies now.
 
That's what I was thinking. This belongs in the Jerry Springer forum
 
hmm

hmm

I think it's a funny conversation, because I've never assumed that getting a RED One would make me a great cinematographer, nor do I have any ambitions to be a cinematographer. I have a ton of respect for the technical AND artistic skills that a good DP brings to a project, and will pay accordingly based on my budget. I wouldn't think of operating the RED myself. I'm a writer-director, and above all a businessman.

As a businessman with a production company, it makes much more sense to own the RED than to rent it, or anything else for that matter. Especially because we have the ability to develop a network of clients not only that we produce projects for, but that we rent equipment to. I don't care if "the big guys" want to go get ripped off at a big rental house, who cares? The medium guys will rent from us, because they know us, and we'll build a network of clients who expect more affordable prices and better service from us. Not to mention we'll do enough productions per year to justify owning.
 
I hate to further derail this thread, but Finner's Naughty Goat has me really intrigued. I thought this was just a really bad mom and pop video shop, but they talk about the Red in their "about us" section and have two reservations:

http://www.mallowmedia.com/aboutus.html

Who does this site belong to? Finner, is this your doing? :detective2: I am astounded by the video clips. Simply stunned.

Thank you for posting this, though - today has been one of the worst days in a long time and this site made me laugh (a good hearty wtf kind of laugh). :)
 
This is my second post, and I am also a newbie of sorts that has just ordered a red. I am actually appalled at some of the crap in this post so I have been compelled to add me two cents. The red is an amazing project that does so many things to so many people on different levels. A cinematographer may buy one and get more work/upgrade his reel or some rich kid may buy one and make Jackass type films....that look like Lawrence of Arabia. I personally have graduated film school and am a fairly competent cinematographer but I certainly know one tenth of what a genius like Fennir, or whatever that losers name is, knows. Does it really offend you people so much that I may have a need for this kind of camera, and that it wont affect your precious jobs or rental rates. I am frankly sick of shooting and directing my own shorts and having them fall short of the competition just because my sony pd150 looks like a security cam. I shot a thesis film on 35mm that I spent my entire life savings on and it turned out to be my worst short film of the entire school year, but it looked the best and therefore had a greater suspension of disbelief. Frankly, I think you are just scared because all your friends are shooting 140 million dollar movies, and you are not. You are scared that some guy like me is going to come out of the woodwork because my storytelling abilities are better then yours, and now our work is on par. I look forward to using my RED to shoot better films then you can, and then taking my movie check and hiring you. This way when I am sitting in my directors chair I can laugh at you slaving your precious lights around the set while I sip my latte.
 
Hi,

I think the point that Finner is making is that amateurs will be using the camera and filming poor footage and other professionals will have a lessened opinion of RedOne as a camera.

The argument against this however is that people have been filming crap in 35mm for years and it's never harmed the use of it.

Any DP with an ounce of knowledge will be able to see past all the junk that will arise and see the potential quality there. So for me it's a none issue.

Lets get back to talking about lenses here shall we?

Paul
 
ridiculous read... Sometimes Reduser.net turns into some weird psychology casestudy.
This thread for instance has a kind of "smeagul" feel to it, which pops up more and more often. You kan almost feel peoples heavy breathing
:sick: ... "My Precious..."
Luckily there is going two be plenty of reds around for everybody, and I gueess it´s gonna go away again when people get their cameras.
 
haha, yeah it is kind of funny, but I'm not so sure every independent production company that is getting a RED One or several RED Ones is actually planning on having inexperienced people shoot with them.

Our plan at this time is to rent the RED Ones when we can, but because we run a small production company we will give our clients the option of shooting with the RED One, which our production company (an S Chapter corporation in California) would rent from our rental company (yet to be formed, probably also a corporation) on a project-by-project basis, with the rental costs built into the budget as well as the cost of a good DP who knows how to work with the camera. Neither my partner nor I know much of anything about cinematography; we're both trying to learn as much as possible, but he is a producer and I'm a writer-director. Our interests are in mastering our trades. I'd much rather work with good DPs and let their skills shine while I focus on what I need to do as a director. Of course, I hope to learn as much about cinematography as I can from those I work with, and think it's important for a director to know a bit about everything (same with a producer), but if crappy footage comes out of my RED it won't be me filming it. I'd be quite disappointed.
 
chuck colburn said:
What does all this have to do with a Nikon mount on the RED camera?
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This is just a bit of foreplay...the mounting comes later, after the farting goat. What thread does a Nike mount use, anyway?
 
4K crap is just gonna look like high rez crap. I don't think anyone is going to have a problem telling whether or not they should hire a person based on the camera they own. I can't see this hurting Red at all. If someone hires a crap shooter and get burned, they have it coming.

I just have a problem with self-appointed Red Police who, if they could, would decide who gets to have a Red and who doesn't. It's a freakin' non-issue.

I was a complete Newbie who didn't know @#$% when I picked up a VideoToaster way back when and thought I was going to be in the TV business. Guess what. Now I make a nice living directing, shooting and editing and have been hired on three continents using current tools and cameras.

So here's what it has to do with Nikon mounts. If you're smart enough to ask the question and learn to change mounts, you might be smart enough to learn to shoot. And if not, at least you tried. And if it's your money and you can afford to lose it then spend it how you want!
 
wshultz said:
So here's what it has to do with Nikon mounts. If you're smart enough to ask the question and learn to change mounts, you might be smart enough to learn to shoot. And if not, at least you tried. And if it's your money and you can afford to lose it then spend it how you want!
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I agree with you, and after asking this question and combing through the threads on the forum, I now have a decent idea of lens options.

As far as owning these cameras, I intend to shoot and learn as much as I can on my own time because it is a very important tool in my craft.

Also, after reading a lot about mounts and differrent types of adaptors, I agree with the people who are frustrated that they have yet to create a way to change mounts without worrying about collimation! LOL

It would be cool to get the PL mount with the 18-50mm Red Lens and a Nikon Adaptor so I can get some fast wide and telephoto Nikon Prime Lenses... Does that sound right? :clown2:
 
You'll probably use that 18-50 range around 90 percent of the time. Since the mount swap is a 15 to 20 minute process (according to Jarred, I think) I don't know if it's worth it. You wouldn't want to go that route on a job. If you're going to go with the Nikon mount anyway, then get the 17-35 (in the sticky above) and supplement with your super wides and telephotos. Personally I'm going that route at first until I can commit to the Red lenses permanently.
 
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