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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NEW TO RED? A few things to think about

Thanks for this reminder Patrick,

It is very true.

David


PatrickFaith said:
Very nice. I think one of the biggest hurdles/misunderstanding is in camera ordering since its unique in the industry. It's like a custom queue directly connected to the manufacturing process, where people get in line as RED works/researches with industry leaders(Fincher/Cameron/Scott/Jackson/etc ...). Also with this approach there is a slow ramping with early adopters/industry_leaders, where the first cameras come out in the queue slowly but there is normally a production volume bump about 6 months after that(i.e. When RED says something is available, for most people general availability is about 6 months after that).
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I would also add something about compression - I'm by no means an expert but from working with other cameras RED seems to have the best raw compression. Both ARRI and Black Magic's file sizes are huge. I love the flexibility of getting to adjust the ratio of compression based on the needs of the project.

Also +1 to neat video's de-noiser. I run anything above 800ASA through it and there is little to no image degradation or loss in sharpness from it.
 
RAW view just blew my mind and I can see it becoming my new best friend. Thank you. I'm accustom to using waveforms but of course that's the DSLR world where what I see is for the most part what I get in post - would do me little good with R3D when viewing in REDlogfilm.

I've also heard that the Raven can not use outside LUTs during filming; however, I am assuming that Redcolor and gamma profiles are indeed accessible in order to better visually judge a shot (apart from RAWview) while on set? I'm asking because I'm teetering between Raven and Scarlet-W.


David Battistella said:
RAW VIEW AND HISTOGRAM ARE YOUR FRIEND


To me, the second most important thing after looking at your monitor for exposure and composition are the:

HISTOGRAM, RAW VIEW, GOALPOST and STOPLIGHT TOOLS

These three tools used together will take you a long long way toward excellent exposure

HISTOGRAM - Learn how to read one based on your scene,

RAW VIEW - Understand that with RED this represents whiat the sensor sees at ISO 800 with a DragonColor 2 and REDlogfilm look profile. Swithcing between this and your settings will tell you a lot. Know where the RAW VIEW key is mapped and use it often
GOAL POSTS above a certain noise. The one on the right tells you how many pixels are clipping

STOPLIGHTS - This tells you when an R G OR B CHANNEL IS CLIPPING
histogram.jpg


Memorize this page of the DSMC manual first.

David
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Heh. I should have my new version of the DSMC Field Ops Guide done this month, but version 1 certainly covers a lot of this in detail.
 
Brent G Miller Jr said:
As someone who comes from years of shooting on DSLRs, I’m a touch confused when it comes to ISO and shooting RAW. With DSLR filming, ISO is another tool to correctly expose a shot and control noise, so, am I understanding this right that I could shoot a scene on RED at an ISO of 5000 and there would no more noise in the shot, if dropped in post to ISO 400, then if the shot was natively captured on-set at ISO 400?!
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+1
It would be nice to do that... but I dont' think you should take things for granted either.
Light the scene, set your camera... record and if you need to change it in post... then do it.... but if you dont' have to... why even....

Even on a tight schedule, I'd rather light and set the camera properly before I press record... you might make mistakes, but I'd rather spend 8 hours to shoot something properly (even if you run out of time and you haven't filmed everything) and spend a day to edit.... rather than to film everything improperly and spend a week to edit.

Again, it would be nice to have a team, but pre-planning and resource alocations.... a lot of project management is more than enough to suffice.
 
Kabilen Mullaithilaga said:
+1
It would be nice to do that... but I dont' think you should take things for granted either.
Light the scene, set your camera... record and if you need to change it in post... then do it.... but if you dont' have to... why even....

Even on a tight schedule, I'd rather light and set the camera properly before I press record... you might make mistakes, but I'd rather spend 8 hours to shoot something properly (even if you run out of time and you haven't filmed everything) and spend a day to edit.... rather than to film everything improperly and spend a week to edit.

Again, it would be nice to have a team, but pre-planning and resource alocations.... a lot of project management is more than enough to suffice.
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Thank you; that's of course understood. My question was a hypothetical of which the answer would help me to better understand the technicalities of the R3D format and what's really going on when adjusting the ISO (purely meta data then?). I'm one that prefers to "shoot to the left" to retain more highlight data over shadows so I want to ensure the range of exposure we 'believe' we're are getting on set or in the field is what we're actually getting without any surprises in post. In the world of DSLR filming, the difference between an ISO of 400 and 800 is substantial.
 
Brent G Miller Jr said:
As someone who comes from years of shooting on DSLRs, I’m a touch confused when it comes to ISO and shooting RAW. With DSLR filming, ISO is another tool to correctly expose a shot and control noise, so, am I understanding this right that I could shoot a scene on RED at an ISO of 5000 and there would no more noise in the shot, if dropped in post to ISO 400, then if the shot was natively captured on-set at ISO 400?!
Click to expand...

Thats not entirely accurate. Noise is determined by your histograms. If blacks are clipping, you'll have noise - regardless of the ISO.

But the noise THRESHOLD for the DSCM2 cameras are far improved yes.

Expect to see pretty clean footage btw 2000-3200 ISO on Standard and Lowlight OLPFs.

But it will always be CLEANER when you drop the ISO to 400 later in post.

Assuming it was correctly exposed, 400 should be whistle clean.
 
Also note that there is nothing RAW about RAW VIEW and the name is misleading.

It just leads to people posting flat, log footage and saying "here is what the RAW looks like." :incazzato:
 
Technically RAW view is linear light in RCX, but we want to give people starting out a baseline.

RAW VIEW is a RED LOOK file representing 800ISO DRagonColor REDlogfilm. Is a manufacturers suggested baseline. Technically, you'd have a pretty hard time framing a shot or even focusing with a linear light view in camera.

Akin A said:
Also note that there is nothing RAW about RAW VIEW and the name is misleading.

It just leads to people posting flat, log footage and saying "here is what the RAW looks like." :incazzato:
Click to expand...
 
Brent G Miller Jr said:
As someone who comes from years of shooting on DSLRs, I’m a touch confused when it comes to ISO and shooting RAW. With DSLR filming, ISO is another tool to correctly expose a shot and control noise, so, am I understanding this right that I could shoot a scene on RED at an ISO of 5000 and there would no more noise in the shot, if dropped in post to ISO 400, then if the shot was natively captured on-set at ISO 400?!
Click to expand...

One thing that helped me understand the difference between ISO in RED and it's equivalent in other cameras is the idea of electronic gain. Many cameras will use electronic gain in their signal path (analog gain) to push the sensitivity of the sensor to "see" in lower light, simulating a higher ISO vis a vis film. This introduces noise into the signal which is then digitally recorded. This is not the case with RED; no gain is ever introduced into the signal insofar as the total of what the sensor "sees" is already being recorded.

Certainly, raising or lowering the ISO will alter the monitoring path but you really want to be careful that this doesn't influence your choices when going for proper exposure. As others have pointed out, if the left goal post is showing red, you will have some noise and if the right goal post is showing red, you'll have some clipping. If you keep both of the goal posts clear, you will have a signal you can work with.
 
Newbies: If you talk smack about RED here your order can get canceled. If you look at the bright side of a delay and stay cheery . . . you can get a free camera model upgrade! ;-)
 
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