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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Sony F3 Footage

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My sitaution is that as an indie, a few days rental adds up to a significant fraction of the price of any one of these imminent cameras. My videos will be finished mid year so no ROI straight away as I am not a working camera man as I work for myself on my own funded projects. For example ,I may well have bought a Scarlet 2/3 rds after a weeks rental of a RED. That's about a quarter the value depending on where one rents. May as well save that towards my next purchase. So for now I will use my Nanoflash and Camcorders with DOF adaptor and save every cent for my next big, hopefully future proof camera that will serve me for years.

I am sure RED will give us clarity soon so as to disuade people in the same boat as me moving to other brands becasue it sure did get a lot more interesting in the last few days.

Don't get me wrong - I have graded some RED R3Ds and my word there is NO comparison. RED was just a 'wow' event in this house. Add RAW to HDR and portability and great service etc I will stay loyal because the future is so here, but only if by mid year I can have a RED camera of some flavour in my hands.................
 
Rudi Herbert said:
I think you're assuming RED needs your deposit to move forward and for what we know of Jim and the RED's business model, this is far from being the reason there are delays. .
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I am pretty sure that if nobody put down a deposit RED might not be as keen to build the camera, nor would they have the seed financing needed to move the program forward.

I doubt that RED is just Jim's playground (although it might appear that way to some), I am pretty sure it's founded on some solid business principles.

David
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Listen closely - I'm honestly trying to help.

It's not about what you want. It's about what earns you $$ against what you have invested, and how fast you ROI that investment. And with respect to choices - yes - it matters very much WHEN you can get the product.

Anyone know what the rental rate on an F3 is? I don't - it's not for rent yet.

I suspect - it will be $500-$600 a day. But I could be wrong.

You have to ask yourself - instead of buying an F3 - are you better off RENTING an F3 or whatever the best-bang-for-the-buck is - and INVESTING your $$ into a long-term, more dynamic, future proof product - while you wait.

I strongly suspect you will all know WHEN you can really get an EPIC or SCARLET before the F3 ships ....

My 2 cents. Take 'em or leave 'em.

PS - smart move skipping the AF100
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I'm honestly trying help as well.

The right camera for the job is one thing; the available camera is another.

Camera prices are coming down quickly. It could very well be that a given camera -- Panasonic, Sony, RED, whatever -- is the one that is available to you and is appropriate for the work when a given job comes around. So you buy it then and work with it. And if you have a decent enough amount of work then the camera has paid for itself. When that next camera comes around you can make that same choice.

I can think of many times where having several options in my arsenal was quite handy. No reason I have to be limited to owning and shooting with just one camera. There is never a single camera that is most appropriate for all work, no way. There will be times when the feature set of the Scarlet will be best and there will be times when the feature set of the Sony or the Panasonic will be most appropriate.

Panasonic AF100 coming in December. Sony F3 coming in January. Scarlet probably coming soon. Choose your poison.
 
Tom Lowe said:
I don't think Jim will care about some lost Scarlet sales after he completely decimates Sony's entire "high end" CineAlta division with Epic X. That camera is going to ruin the competition. It won't be pretty.
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Wise words indeed.

I've just come back from two days of seeing a working Epic, holding it in my hand, and seeing live footage streaming from its HDMI port on the big screen in 1080p at ISO12,800. This camera is a game changer. Seriously. In the last two days I have seen the F3, the AF100, NHK's monster 8K behemoth.... all the latest toys. NONE OF THEM come within a mile of the Epic. None.

When you hold a 5K, 120fps, 18+ stop digital cinema camera in your hand like a DSLR and see it operational.... trust me, you will never want any other camera ever again (except maybe the next Red!). It's truly mindblowing what Jim and team have achieved in such a short space of time. To paraphrase Ted today: "It's not a year late, it's five years early!"

Here's a size comparison for you to think about:

Epic-vs-5D_IMG_0664a.jpg


Game changer.

All that power in something the size of a Canon 5D MkII and only a bit heavier. Put a Marshall monitor on the 5D and they'd look like cousins. But the truth is they couldn't be more different. One shoots 5K at 120fps with 18 stops of latitude. The other.... not so much!! :D

Epic and Scarlet are going to decimate the competition, if you can even call the other camera companies that.... it won't be a battle, it'll be a massacre!

Cheers from Tokyo,

Paul :)
 
Is it just me, or has the published F3 footage got some real colorimetry issues with the colour red?

Graeme
 
I think that if I was to get a sub 20k S35 cam NOW, I'd go out looking for an executed R1M

I am currently onlining our last episodical shot on M, and even the M still amazes me. The MX is better, for sure, but the M is better than most other things available. And in that pricerange...

It's too much fun.

But for all bashing people for thinking of the Arri, Panny and Sony options, I think camerachoice is not a moral question. Availability is a huge factor, and one cannot allways choose to wait. Productionschedules and airing-times are huge factors of a
decissionprocess.

I can wait for the Epic. I have the R1... -:)
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Is it just me, or has the published F3 footage got some real colorimetry issues with the colour red?

Graeme
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Maybe they are boycotting the colour ;)

To me it looks like an EX3 with a DOF adapter. I might be wrong because I have only seen compressed footage on the web.
 
Waiting for Godot, except Vladimir and Estragon you'll get Scarlet and Epic.

A camera like a bulky box is not my cup of tee.

I'm not buying AF101 or F3 and similar...

Actually waiting for Scarlet because is lighter than Epic.

In between I'm training myself with a lightweight DSLRs or mirror-less micro 4/3...

like a 7D, 5D and upcoming GH2 on lightweight tripod system from Gitzo and Libec,

also with Kessler Cine Slider and Steadicam Merlin with arm and vest.

With those lightweight cameras I can do every possible shot, get extraordinary look

except extreme slow motion (1000 fps) than I would need to rent Phantom Extreme...

Always I do have enough fun.
 
Liam Hall said:
Henry, it's quite simple really; buy December you get Ashley Giles, buy January you get Monty Panesar, buy May/June (or whenever he's fit) you get Shane Warne.

I know who I'd want in my team...
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He he he - nice one. As long as Warne is available for selection when the big game comes up.:smiley:
 
I think we all feel/hope/expect/believe that Epic will indeed be a game changer and certainly most of us agree that RED has been a game changer. BUT, truth is, very few projects of the thousands that people seem to be indefinitely putting on hold until they can get their hands on a RED truly can be shot on nothing other than a RED. I mean, if the option is to either bring to life that dear project you've worked on and obsessed over for years on end, or wait until you can afford that technology that most likely will still be out of reach later as it is now, however cheaper it has become, then you'll never get off your rear end and do anything with your dreams. RED is by far the most technologically advanced digital camera out there, and it is about to become better by an order of magnitude, but there are a TON of other cameras that will do your project enough justice and get you out there. So you can either endlessly deride the Sony and Panasonics of the world for not coming anywhere near close enough to RED, or you can use those very cameras, bought or rented, learn to use them within their limitations and still produce stunning images, or keep on blaming your lack of action on your waiting for the imminent arrival of that immensely better technology that will not make your work any better really. I have done great work, work that I'm totally proud of, with a VX-1000, with a PD-150, with an F-900 and even nowadays with EX-1's , which I've had projected on large screens and been satisfied enough with the results I got, all along while getting my vision out there. And yes, I've also gotten several projects done on RED, but I haven't been any more proud of those, only more impressed with the final look from a technical stand point, not an artistic one.

Sorry for the unrelated clichey rant, I'm just so fed up of all those "artists" out there that perennially blame their inability for getting their asses off their couch and into the real world on the lack of "good enough" technology. And if this description does not fit you, then there's no reason you should feel offended.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
Sorry for the unrelated clichey rant, I'm just so fed up of all those "artists" out there that perennially blame their inability for getting their asses off their couch and into the real world on the lack of "good enough" technology.
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Rudi, just a friendly note...

If you google the OP you may feel feel your toes tickling the back of your throat.

Liam.
 
Liam Hall said:
Rudi, just a friendly note...

If you google the OP you may feel feel your toes tickling the back of your throat.

Liam.
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Liam,

My toes tickling the back of my throat is an easy enough image to decode, but googling the OP escapes me...
 
As far as I can see, the original poster does NOT wait for the Scarlet to produce.

I must say that I am for ever glad that I did those PD-150 productions way back then, when that was available to me, the HVX ones, when that was it, and even though I wait for the Epic and do MX stuff everyday, I still love my M.

I think Rudis point is good.
One thing is that tools can improve, and they have. But if you don't use the time you're waiting for a new tool to improve your own toolset on whatever tools you have available, you'll be finding yourself waiting indefinitely. And that isn't very creative, is it?
 
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