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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Scarlet owner - lost in the woods..

Simon Knight

Simon Knight

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Hi Guys,

Ok, a BMCC convert here (on the list for 6 months but not likely to get one for another 6 months!!) looking for a little info on the Scarlet. I am a wedding videographer and commercial/ promotional filmmaker. I am looking to upgrade to the Scarlet although most of my work will be 2K orientated through my Atomos Ninja. I am future-proofing my work into 4k, as it were. From what i've read so far here, the corporate world and weddings is where Red would like its products to be seen!


As there is a whole new world out there in Red-Land i'm looking for a few comments on the longevity and robustness of the Scarlet model. I cannot afford an Epic and am not looking for a reason to buy one as I am very happy with the Scarlet specs as is. But I am not "in the know" or "in the loop" so I wonder if there are any plans afoot to upgrade or delete the Scarlet? Or what plans Red has for it? I wont be able to add a "dragon" upgrade until the Scarlet has paid for herself so not an option i feel?


Second. As a UK customer i'm still a little confused on the pricing. I've created a wish list costing $17000. Following the threads on here, would I be correct to add (approximately) 6% making it roughly $18000. I've then converted it to UK pounds - £11,100 and then added 20% for VAT. So a total of £13,300. Very rough estimates but is this about right?

Oh and ok, third little question... I've got about £1000 or $1500 left after the Scarlet setup. What are the absolute "must have" lenses to add to the bag?


Thanks very much guys and I look forward to speaking more as I take ownership…


Regards


Simon Knight
MediaHound Films

 
Simon Knight said:
As there is a whole new world out there in Red-Land i'm looking for a few comments on the longevity and robustness of the Scarlet model.
Click to expand...


Longevity and robustness:

The Scarlet, just like the Epic, is built like a tank. I almost mean that literally. 4K has landed for some time and will be more widely adopted as time goes by. It will happen quicker than 1080p/HD. Scarlet will allow you to create a 4K deliverable image that's suitable for that new standard.

On the future. We don't have hard details, but Scarlet will have a path to Dragon. We don't know when, how, or how much. But there will be a path. Red has expressed that. Soonish we'll likely know more.

Lens talk. For me "must have" lenses are primes. However, knowing your line of work a few good zooms might be in order. Check out the Canon 24-70mm f/2.8 L. It's a very useful range on Scarlet and Epic. The 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS is another extremely useful lens. That would allow you to stay well back from your bride and groom to get those candid moments.
 
While the Scarlet is certainly a great camera to shoot wedding on, it is precisely weddings where the Epic has the upper hand. One of the main reasons people might go for a "RED wedding" is the RED's ability to shoot motion and stills at the same time - eliminating the need for two photographers. And it is stills where you notice the huge difference between 4K and 5K. Furthermore you can set the Epic to shoot HDRx and use the X-track for stills, as it has higher shutter speed resulting in crispier stills (less motion blur).
Having said that - the 4K stills from Scarlet are very decent and might be enough for photo delivery...

I have shot my share of weddings and when it comes to lenses - think fast! Weddings always go till late night and become quite dark. A fast lens is a must. The 24-70 Phil recommended is indeed an amazing choice, but I'm afraid out of your budget. Consider getting the 50mm f/1.4 - it's about 250 £ and great for portraits. Then add a widest fastest prime you can afford - wide angle is a must for weddings. Try getting the 24mm f/1.4 used from eBay...

Just my 2 yen
 
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perfect answers from everyone.. thanks... i was planning an assault on eBay as son as it arrives!

Regards
SK
Mediahound Films
 
You should not buy the Scarlet if you just have the money for the camera itself (speaking from experience) as accessories is really expensive in RED-land. I have already spent as much on acessories as I did on the camera itself and I still don't have a Redrocket, which is a must for quick turn arounds (of which there is alot of in the professional industry). When that is said, the motion/stills capability of the Scarlet is amazing to have in wedding setting. Trying cath the perfect moment is much easier when you can shoot video and pick just the one frame where the smile was perfect.
 
Steinar Andersen said:
You should not buy the Scarlet if you just have the money for the camera itself (speaking from experience) as accessories is really expensive in RED-land. I have already spent as much on acessories as I did on the camera itself...
Click to expand...

Agreed from my experience to date (just started with BT Scarlet Nov).

However its worth the pain and if you look hard enough (reduser and ebay) its worth it.

Ive saved close to 7K buying from here and ebay.

If you think about it, a brand new or used Sacthler 20 will cost more than the Scarlet body so you really cant win either way.

Just work with your budget now and hope more money will come in for future purchases.

I love my Scarlet, it really changed my life :)
 
Simon -

If you shoot live events, be prepared for fan noise.

While quieter than a real film camera - the Scarlet does have a fan to deal with. I can't imagine shooting a wedding reception with my Scarlet.
 
I shot a wedding with my scarlet worked fine, had two fan settings manual with standby set to 45, and auto so I could switch back and forth quickly with my fan mode quick key. Now I did not use the sound in the video(though I recorded it) but it would be perfectly useable and compared to the room murmur you couldn't hear the scarlet even if I was right next to you.

but then again this was a lively Italian/Canadian wedding not you stuffy hear a pin drop setting so yes it all depends on the venue and clients.

in reality anything can be shot with any camera all depends on your workflow style and what you and your clients are willing to put up with.
 
Steinar Andersen said:
I still don't have a Redrocket, which is a must for quick turn arounds (of which there is alot of in the professional industry).
Click to expand...

There was a time when this was true, but these days I'd spend a bit extra and get an HP Z820 system. Rockets have reliability issues - someone I know is on his third one, which means he's into it about $10k.


Colin
 
Simon Knight said:
on the list for 6 months but not likely to get one for another 6 months!!
Click to expand...

sounds familiar... can't remember how long i waited until the scarlet finally rose from the surface. worth the wait...

i'm not 100% sure corporate and wedding videos are really itching for 4k mainstream just yet... but here in a couple weeks some 4k displays are dropping, so it's only a matter of time... and i'm sure there already could be a niche in bigger cities for very high quality production, plus all the benefits of shooting 4k raw motion+stills at sensitive events.

you'll probably wanna throw down quite a bit to have more than enough media... and it's not cheap.

and yeah, i'd say use premiere with a decent video card in a decent system and you're still cheaper and probably better off than with a RR these days.
 
I don't think a RED camera is best for weddings. I think you'll be best suited with a much lighter, smaller package. The Sony or Panasonic prosumer cams come to mind (or DSLRs of course). Something inexpensive enough where if the A cam fails you can whip out a replacement from the trunk and keep shooting. Something where' you can roll footage for 30 min+ and not worry about overheating,fan noise, storage space, codecs, compression etc...Everyone here loves red (including me), but I wouldn't hinge my entire business and reputation on a single camera's reliability.

/my 2 cents.
 
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I honestly think RED is the wrong choice for wedding for so many reasons, there just to many to list, but here are the top few:

Fan Noise
Battery draining
Heavy

List goes on forever but at just those 3 I'd stop. It's way overkill, Stick with a 5D mark III and you'd be much more safe with getting the shot. Or new Nikon D800 or whatever else they just came out with that has great video option. Scarlet has no still option so you're really just in an overkill mode for not much gain over a DSLR if any.
 
I would agree in some aspects of why a DSLR would make sense, battery, media time, and dedicated stills modes. At the wedding I filmed there was not a single mention of my camera's fan despite being there for every moment of the day to quiet dressing rooms, to the ceremony, to the speeches at the reception. Now this would not have been possible if I had not rigorously checked scenarios before the event, how long it would take in a single take before the fan would kick in, how long I can keep it in standby and minimal fan before it needs a shutdown and how long I needs to keep it off, as well as at the event making sure to turn off the camera as often as possible.

Now there are many ways to shoot a wedding, so I understand if it does not fit into some people's business models. If you are a still's and video crew then I understand using multiple cheap dedicated still's camera's with a video mode even supported by another dedicated camcorder style camera.

as to the negatives and my work around...

media: I had a 64gb and a 48gb, but I shot in... 18:1(AHHH!) but despite that I ended up never holding back on what I needed to film(including speech's and full ceremony which I asked for a timing of before and tested fan settings for) I also tested the 18:1 against my GH-1(this was a favor for a friend and I was a guest as well as videographer, money for rentals was non existent) and despite the compression the increase in DR and having red raw files there was no question. (though I brought a fully kitted out hacked GH-1 as a back up, it was not used)

Power: ac adapter, two redvolts and a charger.... (I know even I was crazy nervous on this end) Well plugged whenever it was non intrusive, rotated the batteries on and off the charger when I had the chance throughout the day once again plugin any time I could, and despite my fears never had an issue with power.

weight: I have shot weddings with DSLR's and to be honest I found them to light for proper spontaneous handheld especially considering their rolling shutter. admittedly I had issues on both end with rolling shutter and the pure weight of the camera and holding it throughout the day, that was my mistake didn't take my monopod in an effort to be more slimmed down. though in the finished product content is king and no one cares about the minimal rolling shutter.

Fan: it's all about prep, if prep and info is not given then yes I would worry. If the location is exceedingly hot then yes I would worry. Perhaps it's all about climates here up north in the wedding season which are typically not the warmest.

Now I understand this is by no means your typical wedding scenario and some of my "solutions" would just not work or be accepted my most clients or workflows/business models. just one of many possible realities.

In the end my friends were more than happy with the final product, in fact they were blown away as was anyone else I have been allowed to show at this point(have to wait until after the premire...hehe).

So depending on your style of shooting and the type of content you deliver, a scarlet can work out great, it's all about knowing yours and your cameras limits as well as your clients expectations.

Have a good one!
 
Eh I still stand by that weddings are not for this kinda camera. Media dumping alone would require a whole crazy DIT setup, including the whole point... why shoot 18:1 compression?? defeats the whole point of shooting with the camera then... The client will never see a 4K res result from their video, so again, why bother?

I own a Scarlet-X and would never consider using it for anything where 1 shot is all you got. Thats risking your relationship with your clients. Stick with tried and true cameras like Nikon and Canon that will work without a hitch and are easy to dump footage, charger batteries, and keep running. Heck most wedding photographers I know have a 7D a 5D and a T2i all with them at the same time. Thats a much better package for a wedding than a RED system

Use 5D for stills, 7D for video, and T2i as secondary stills camera. You can't go wrong and much safer and more redundant.

I really dont think you're realizing exactly how much battery power you're going to need to keep up and running for a whole wedding. You're talking at least 8 hours or battery without having to worry about recharge times... Thats easily $2,000 + in brick batteries.

Honestly, its not worth it, not to your clients who expect you to capture a moment... if you miss that moment because of technology, whats the point of you being there?

Use something that you'll have an easy time capturing the moment with. Not something that you have to worry about all day/night. You should be worrying about your shots and composition and timing, not how much redmags you're running out of, or battery swaps, mag dumps, heat fan issues, straining issues with weight, and non-backup-body situations.

Not worth it at all unless you've got a few people with you and at least 1 other Scarlet body with you for double the backup.


OH AND PS.... good luck trying to shoot in low light with the Scarlet-X vs using iso 1600 on a 5D or 7D... it all points to DSLR is the best tool. Just because you own a system that has more "K" doesn't mean its better for the job.
 
Josef how many times have you had your scarlet break down? I can not recall we had any incidents with our epic that was any bigger than a 15 sec reboot solved it.
Also, yes you need batteries but for a wedding you for sure can runt on AC power for part of it and all cameras need batteries, the red sucks a lot of juice but there are big cheap batteries around. for red just as for any other camera.
Also a atmos ninja or any other proress module (let you record for hours on end without swapping mags etc. if thats needed. Red mags might be expansive but if you have four of them you can very much shoot constantly and have a computer that collects the files.

offcourse weddings can be shot with basically any camera but if you go the extra mile and get a scarlet and got some talent your wedding films will stand out from the rest. By far. But I think you should calculate for atleast 20-25 usd for the equipment needed.

You do not need red rocket, if you edit in premier or final cut x then you have an over night final render to get the film out which is fine for wedding stuff i guess.
 
By far the biggest advantage of shooting a wedding on Scarlet / Epic - is the ability to pull stills out of the footage - where you will see every single "K" (sorry about the pun). In DSLR/HDV world that means +1 photographer. If You are a one-man-show (which many clients do appreciate as there is minimal intrusion/distraction to the event) - RED has definitely the upper hand. Reliability is not a question, nor is the fan noise. Not for a operator that is familiar with his equipment and does RTFM. Media - one solution (as Bjorn pointed out) is a proxy device, another solution is a simple DIT setup. Far from monstrous contraptions - all You need is a Macbook Air, RED STATION and HDD sitting quietly in the corner. With two 64GB mags You can keep swapping without problems. I also agree that there is no need for RED Rocket. Not for a wedding. If You really want a backup - get the Rebel, or 60D/70D for the highly unlikely scenario that You will need it. And as far as the batteries go - no need for 2000+ USD. Two bricks with couple of RED VOLTS and AC adapter will get you through a wedding with ease...

Peter
 
I agree that shooting a wedding can be done, but it's certainly not the best tool for the job (both cost and physical usage)... Especially if you plan on shooting weddings day in and out.

--edit--

I have had a red one go down on me during a shoot. I was the funding producer on the shoot. I never ever want to relive sitting at video village watching the (my) money get tossed down the drain while they tinker with the camera. Granted that was several years (firmwares) ago.
 
18:1 was not the best solution but it worked great, there are some compression issues of course but no one else notices them. Any other camera I would have used would have had much worse compression and a compromise on image quality(I know I tested against all my available cameras). Though I could very well have had my laptop and offloaded during the day, I would not have been able to enjoy myself. If I were working, I would have had plenty of time to offload and shoot at 6:1 like I normally do. But in this situation which is very specific, I know, 18:1 was the easiest solution for shooting a wedding I was also attending. I was told by my "clients" to capture the day but first and foremost enjoy myself and not stress out... after they told me that and until the day itself I did nothing but stress out, luckily it all worked out fine.

Had a light meter with me and was only a stop under at the worst times(at f1.4-2.8) and with some grading and neat video came out not bad(would be great with a proper colourists hands).

So even in this, the worst possible scenario for shooting a wedding video with a scarlet, I still managed to deliver a product the clients loved.
 
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