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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New Ronford-Baker EVF Mount

Daniel Reichenbach said:
Hi guys, stay cool, if I remember well, I have a wonderfull DOVEtail at home, which looks VERY similar to an ARRI dovetail but was made by ET. A copy? Don't care, it works great and was the right choice.
Click to expand...

So do we have a big old 'pot calling the kettle' thing here by ET? If there's not a patent, then anyone is free to make'em. I guess whether this is "wrong" or just good business is whether there's a patent in process.
 
IMO the controversy appears to be a non issue: The basic design concept is similair to a C stand, look at it! The basic idea has been around since Pre-Ancient Greek times. Go check out ancient engineering and you'll see these obvious designs have been around longer than our recorded history, sorry it's not rocket science. The big difference between now and thousands of years ago is our connector technology [nuts, bolts, etc.] this is the real innovative breakthroughs.
 
Daniel Reichenbach said:
Hi guys, stay cool, if I remember well, I have a wonderfull DOVEtail at home, which looks VERY similar to an ARRI dovetail but was made by ET. A copy? Don't care, it works great and was the right choice.
Click to expand...

And this is a very good point. Arri don't have patents on many of their designs which has allowed for many accessories (and at least one part of the Red One) to be manufactured that are "Arri Compatible" without any fuss. In fact, those same companies even use the Arri name in their product literature :shifty:
 
What about cars?

In this comparison Lexus and Hyundai look almost the same as a design of Mercedes Benz front that is the oldest creation as we know.

Somebody would add: They want to look like a Mercedes!

Just because it (Mercedes) desire lies deepest in a consumer consciousness.

preview.jpg

Mercedes Benz S-class 2009

g_ext15.jpg

Lexus LS 2009

asset_upload_file279_19956.jpg

Hyundai Genesis 2009
 
10s said:
IMO the controversy appears to be a non issue: The basic design concept is similair to a C stand, look at it! The basic idea has been around since Pre-Ancient Greek times. Go check out ancient engineering and you'll see these obvious designs have been around longer than our recorded history, sorry it's not rocket science. The big difference between now and thousands of years ago is our connector technology [nuts, bolts, etc.] this is the real innovative breakthroughs.
Click to expand...

I agree. I have products from ET and Ronford, both companies supply excelent kit in my view.

I also note that tripods from Sachtler, Ronford, OConnor, Manfrotto, Miller all share the same basic design. I don't know who copied who other than that they all fufil the same support requirement, nor does it really matter. To mount an EFV on the side of the camera its bound to be similar in design due to the user requirements.

Also as has been pointed out the Arri base plates and wedge plates which have proven the test of time and become a standard in their own right also are manufactured by various companies to a similar complimentary design.

Dave
 
The ET one looks superior (has the up/down slider & lock too), so who's going to buy the Ronford anyway (unless it's dirt cheap...which is highly unlikely in the film accessory world)?
 
Well... This is a tough call. I have taken a hard look at Ronford's photos. Here are my issues:

What smacks of ET on them is the sliding mechenism they use, and the shape of it. A mirror of ET. However, Ronford made some design choices that are different from ET. One of them could make a big difference to Birger Lens Mount buyers.

Their rod holder clamp which attaches to the camera, looks like it's designed to go on the TOP of the upper support, rather than in front of it. This will allow for some much needed height that the Birger users are suffering with right now because there is not enough clearance between the lens antenna and the ET mount. So while I may use the ET mount, I will be asking about the price of Ronford's rod clamp. (Not sure where the handle goes though)

Aside from that, it's all about price. If Ronford is more than $500.00 less than ET, then there could be an issue here. If it's not, then I believe the ET is a better piece of gear, as will most people.

Only ET really knows what it costs to make this stull. Well I guess Ronford knows now too! If the profit margins are a little "fat" then you are going to see competition enter the market place with similar products at lower costs. Can anyone say "Wal-Mart?"

As for copying stuff and not being "honorable". Ummm, in this day and age, when American business after business is being caught in some sort of illegial act, or just beinig greedy jerks I am not going to go near this.

Business is war. If a company feels it can make money at the expense of another, and not go to jail, they are most likely going to try it. If this were not the case then Jim could save a lot of money and let all his lawyers go.

And while I agree that it is a small town, I don't think that will matter much if Ronforn offers a competing product at a smaller price. Right now, in this economy, people's loyality will be to their pocket book. There may be some rich guys out there who may do it differently, but aside from Jim, I don't know many of them.

I will be interested to see when Epic and/or Scarlet arrive, if any third party items we bought for RED show up in RED's stock for the new cameras. Would this make RED dishonest, or just a smart business? I think the latter.

Some guy just made a mount very similar to the Birger mount, but no one complains. Why? cause so many people are pissed at Birger right now because of delays. But there is no debating he's the father of this type of technology.

All I'm saying is that this is a dangerous gray area and there are few who can say "I don't do that". If ET has a good product and it's profits are in line, they have nothing to worry about. Ronford may be able to make the thing, but it's not as good and cost the same anyway. Case closed.

If ET has a patent, then I expect they will SUE THE PANTS OFF RONFORD. Just as they should. That's what patents are for.

Jay

PS I also wonder if we've been "goosed" here.. They say they have FINISHED the first batch of EVF mounts, but they show you an render and there are no listings or photos online. I wonder if they made this post to dip their toes in the water to test reaction before diving in. Just a thought.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
So do we have a big old 'pot calling the kettle' thing here by ET? If there's not a patent, then anyone is free to make'em. I guess whether this is "wrong" or just good business is whether there's a patent in process.
Click to expand...

I don't think ET themselves has said anything one way or another yet. And for that matter, neither has Ronford.
 
Hmm,there seems to be a great deal of over reaction about this.
I'd be surprised if ET have a patent,the concept is certainly not new,this is pretty basic mechanical engineering stuff.
Give that brief to 6 different designers and I guarantee that they will all come up with a broadly similar approach.

Tom.
 
A lot of it is based on loyality Thomas. ET was the very first vendor of its type to jump in with RED.. They are responsible for a few of the products in RED's store.

There's a family atmosphere on here, which I like. So its understandable.

It's important to all of us that ET do well. They have competition with RED items to be sure, but this one was a little.... Obvious.

Jay
 
I don't want to get involved in the discussion too much since I have my own agenda, but I am a bit surprised so many people think the ET mount is the only possible solution for a problem. Of course you can think of other ways to mount a viewfinder to a camera. I'll be presenting my viewfinder mount when it is ready but here is a preview.

evf-mount.jpg
 
sander kamp said:
I don't want to get involved in the discussion too much since I have my own agenda, but I am a bit surprised so many people think the ET mount is the only possible solution for a problem. Of course you can think of other ways to mount a viewfinder to a camera. I'll be presenting my viewfinder mount when it is ready but here is a preview.
Click to expand...

Nice work. Looks less bulky and over engineered than some of the other offerings. What I'd really like to see is a mount that has an adjustable friction that allows for adjustments in tilt while shooting. Make it so you don't have to loosen anything - like the Arri optical viewfinders.

The other one I really want to see is an extended EVF mount (12" or more) with a leveller system. That's what I feel is really missing from what's out there.

Good luck, with your design. Consider different arm lengths and devising a leveller and you'd have one up on the competition.

Keep us posted.
 
Cinewalt said:
Just got word from Ronford - their price is identical to ET's.
Click to expand...

Now the race starts.

Who is going to win?

Who is better?

I do not know and didn't make decision to buy any because...

still working with Manfrotto solution.

This kit consists

one 035C SUPER CLAMP FOR CAMERA ARM and

196B-2 SINGLE ARM

that all perform perfect, easy and fast to adjust at any position you would need

especially for a hand-held where ET and Ronford-Baker are pretty weak.

Also it is a bargain compare with ET and Ronford-Baker prices.

All that is attached at ALLSTAR handle mount together with RODE NTG-3+DeadCat microphone wind jammer.

Microphone is connected with Behringer TUBE ULTRAGAIN MIC200 preamplifier with adjustable gain

that allows you to quickly optimize your recordings to the camera audio (1 mono channel for reference audio).

Also a bargain to compare with others.

I still claim that using/owing professional equipment cannot make somebody that become (suddenly) a professional.

Only a real professional can make with any equipment a professional result.

ManfrottoEVFmount1.jpg


ManfrottoEVFmount2.jpg


ManfrottoEVFmount3.jpg
 
I've done run n' gun with rigs looking just like that and much bigger lenses, like my Cooke 18-100. Up and down stairs, rough terrain, whatever. People who think you can't run n' gun with a RED One need to hit the gym and pump some iron. ;)
 
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