new REDCINE-X feedback

[Daniel Dacian]

I didn't think this was a very good idea at first, but now I think about it, it would actually be really handy to be able to render out keyed video with an alpha channel. And you'd probably have more control if it could use the raw data too.

I think it would be great if we could get it as a plugin - say, Keylight for RC-X.

Yes, that was the idea, there would be a much higher level of control, because lets say we first lock the key in and then we are free to prepare our footage however we like. Instead of using RC-X only to prepare everything for the keying in another program.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Are all clips on the timeline dumped into memory?

Noticed that if one clip is on the timeline the playback caching is super fast at 1/4 res and the buffer is long... then the caching speed starts slowing down after each additional clip and the buffer is reduced to around five seconds.

 

[David Battistella]

Hi,

One thing I would like to see in the timeline is a clearer definition between shots. I'm dealing with a lot of similar material this AM and it's difficult to see the "cut points".

Also, zooming into the timeline would be a nice feature to add as well.

Thanks,
David

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

One more feature request-

One more feature request-

It would be great if it were possible to burn in reel, clip, and time code into the exported still frame. For the dailies, I'll have the DIT export out a reference frame from the circled takes and format them for my iPhone so that I have a reference on lighting, etc. Being able to see the reel, clip, and time code on the still would be helpful in this process to help identify the still since I can't read the title of the clip while viewing it on my iPhone.

 

[Anson Fogel]

Better Clip Scrubbing and Thanks!

Better Clip Scrubbing and Thanks!

Thanks so much for such rapid progress on this new tool, for free!

Currently its not super easy to scrub through clips looking for the good ones - you can mouseover a clip and it plays, but you cant scrub it manually, and you have to load a clip into the timeline to fully scrub it. Still using Clipfinder to scrub but it sends clips to RA not RCX, and RCX is now sooooo close to being an all in one solution. A solution would be the ability to press a key and load a clip in the browser window into the player and scrub but NOT load it into the timeline or bin.

But we know your list is long and appreciate such a badass tool for free.

 

[sander kamp]

REDCINE-X has potential to be a really nice application. However, at the moment I don't feel like using it yet. My main points are:

- The interface: the windows have no place and are just everywhere. Can windows at least have a closing button? Or how about tabs, different rooms or something to keep it all organized? A central space for the image would also be nice.
- Doing things feels kind of 'sticky', probably because it is going into caching all the time but it doesn't make for a smooth experience. Moving sliders, clicking buttons, even moving windows, it all takes too much time.
- I don't understand the FLUT control. What am I supposed to see? Now there is ISO, FLUT, Brightness, Curves and Exposure all effecting the brightness of the image.

Anyway, keep up the good work, I am sure it will be great in the end.

 

[Paul Leeming]

Some feedback for the Red Team:

The Ugly: Though I imagine it's in the works, I'd really like to see the GUI refined and made more usable by allowing the panels to scale and getting rid of unnecessary real estate such as the honeycomb tops of most panels.

It also needs to remember the workspace settings as there's maybe ten or more panels and they always default to "scattered everywhere" when starting the program currently!

This all goes hand in hand with remembering that most people don't use 2560x1600 monitors. I'd say at an absolute minimum you need to support a layout at 1440x900 for MacBook Pros and 1920x1080 (or the more common 1920x1200) should be able to view everything with no shrinking of panels to fit, as this working resolution is what 90% of video professionals are likely to be editing with thanks to the HDTV standard.

Also remember your roots. RedCine original used the limited space of the screen in an elegant way - it had four main panels which acted like workspaces (and were easy to switch between) as well as a Player/Library delineation. RedCine-X seems to want to cram everything into one screen which leaves less room for the main event - the actual footage window!

The Bad: Stability and speed of course, though I know this is early beta stuff. Mac vs PC build lag. Not a new cry but in this day and age of common codebases I'd like to see it happen close to simultaneously. No RedRocket support on the PC side that I am aware of (within Redcine-X; I'm aware of Scratch and other high end solutions for those with money to burn).

The Good (nay, GREAT!): Saved the best for last of course! The new colour science is AMAZING and well worth putting up with the pain of early beta status. All that stuff I mentioned above? I know that will all get fixed some day, but right now I can bring in old footage from two years ago and it looks far better than it used to! The power of recording to RAW is your ace in the hole. Can't wait for build 22 or whatever number gives me the import of Redcine-X's camera LOOK file. That will truly be another huge step forward for the clients.

Lastly, a question - What would be the best equivalent export format on the Windows side (for bringing into Premiere Pro CS4) to the Mac side's ProRes4444 MOV export (for FCP)? Exporting TIFF or DPX, whilst visually perfect and 4K capable, takes up a LOT of space and requires an additional step down the chain of putting it all back together as an audio/video asset, not to mention it often loses all the metadata such as timecode, frame number etc.

The reason I ask is that Adobe is taking forever to get up to date with improvements in colour science (no support even for build 20 colour yet!) and I want to pre-grade with greater precision in RedCine-X so I can just put graded clips onto the timeline.

In an ideal future scenario though, the SDK would support RedCine-X's LOOK format and metadata in other applications so I could use RedCine-X to grade a shot, save the resulting LOOK file alongside it and have Premiere Pro (or FCP if you're Mac based) recognise and use it automatically. Round tripping EDL's for extra points!

Thanks for listening as always Red!

Cheers,

Paul

 

[John Jonathan]

I am wondering how RED is going to implement CDL (Color Decision List) in the future? I am thinking primary color grades in REDCINE-X, export CDL and use that to start a final grade after an edit.

 

[Ian Laurie]

Can quicktime-x not be used instead?

 

[Chris Parker]

I am wondering how RED is going to implement CDL (Color Decision List) in the future? I am thinking primary color grades in REDCINE-X, export CDL and use that to start a final grade after an edit.

that sure would be nice......my biggest concern with the new X-originated material is that REDCine-X will be the ONLY application that can deal with it. This would cause productions to shy away from using cameras with the new sensor until it did not mess with the currently established post workflow solutions. In particular, final grading, if unable to conform and go back to RAW RED like most now do, would be a stumbling block in this new format's early acceptance.

 

[David Battistella]

that sure would be nice......my biggest concern with the new X-originated material is that REDCine-X will be the ONLY application that can deal with it. This would cause productions to shy away from using cameras with the new sensor until it did not mess with the currently established post workflow solutions. In particular, final grading, if unable to conform and go back to RAW RED like most now do, would be a stumbling block in this new format's early acceptance.

Hey Chris,

You guys have a Scratch system over there at SIM don't you? PLus I am pretty sure pablo already supports the new M-X since I think it was playing off of a Pablo at RED day.

It all depends on how fast the NEW SDK gets into people's hands to be able to integrate the R3D in their software packages. But there isn't even a camera build yet so that will be a tough choice.

I think that until then any footage we do shoot right now can benefit from M-X technology in REDCINE-X which is a good thing. If they could jam that into all the post tools before a camera release that would be sweet.

My old footage has never looked so good!


David



David

 

[mikeburton]

I suppose that by the time cameras are being released to the majority of users with M-X installed that the tools will be properly in place. Its always the early adopters that will have to transform their way of working to accommodate the lack of software support which I assume won't be an issue for long. Its also those same early adopters that make money from that inconvenience as well by figuring out how best to work around those shortcomings. Directors and DOP's will want to shoot with the best tool they can and as long as there is A solution to post it they will encourage their post team to adapt as well. Why? Cause its the post house job to adapt and make it work. If it costs more well, that's all part of the pre-production planning.
Remember, RED is more aware now of what people in production and post production need for their workflows to be seamless and have bent over backwards to try to accommodate all parties. From what I've heard, Assimilate is already showing M-X footage in their system and Pablo as well. I think RED will make the necessary adjustments to get the new tools into existing workflows before this becomes a wide spread issue as I'm sure they have learned their lesson from past experience.

 

[David Battistella]

I suppose that by the time cameras are being released to the majority of users with M-X installed that the tools will be properly in place. Its always the early adopters that will have to transform their way of working to accommodate the lack of software support which I assume won't be an issue for long. Its also those same early adopters that make money from that inconvenience as well by figuring out how best to work around those shortcomings. Directors and DOP's will want to shoot with the best tool they can and as long as there is A solution to post it they will encourage their post team to adapt as well. Why? Cause its the post house job to adapt and make it work. If it costs more well, that's all part of the pre-production planning.
Remember, RED is more aware now of what people in production and post production need for their workflows to be seamless and have bent over backwards to try to accommodate all parties. From what I've heard, Assimilate is already showing M-X footage in their system and Pablo as well. I think RED will make the necessary adjustments to get the new tools into existing workflows before this becomes a wide spread issue as I'm sure they have learned their lesson from past experience.

Nice post Mike. Agreed. BUT. It does add a lot of stress to production when there is only one option. For any long form project, the tools to create daillies exists today and by the time the finsihing comes around then the tools "should" be in place, but not all productions want that kind of gamble.

It can be a very conservative crowd, but I think RED knows this by now.

David

 

[mikeburton]

Nice post Mike. Agreed. BUT. It does add a lot of stress to production when there is only one option. For any long form project, the tools to create daillies exists today and by the time the finsihing comes around then the tools "should" be in place, but not all productions want that kind of gamble.

It can be a very conservative crowd, but I think RED knows this by now.

David

Agreed, David. Its never going to be a perfect world although we would like it to be so I fully understand working in the post world how frustrating only ONE option would be for a post company or individuals to have to deal with. And yes, we are in a very conservative business. BUT, I would say that the pros will outweigh the cons in this scenario IMO. Obviously, if the necessary finishing tools such as Quantel, Assimilate, Lustre Baselight, Iridas etc can't support M-X footage for a while that would be a determining factor for possibly not adopting the new system but like I mentioned, I don't see that as being a reality based off of RED's determination to make their new cameras and sensor a success. I fully believe that we will see the necessary support for the post community in a reasonable amount of time so it won't be a question for anyone accept the early adopters, and we all know that the pros outweigh the cons in their situation both from a Marketing, and financial scenario.

 

[Jeremy Neish]

Love it. Though I agree with some of the previous comments regarding palette control.

A huge request: please please please, steal the HSL controls from Lightroom. I've been doing a lot of wedding photography tweaking for my wife lately, and these are far and away my favorite color correction controls EVER.

Here's a video of me using those controls:
http://www.belladayphotography.com/tutorials/Lightroom_for_REDUser_h264.mov

 

[Eric Rainey]

Love the new REDgamma and FLUT Control!!!!! I have a really dumb question and looked to see if it had been asked....didn't see it in this thread. I am trying to export what I have in the timeline/clip in player and I go through the motions of exporting, by hitting export. The exported clip comes up in "Batch Monitor" but nothing happens....it stays at 0%. I am probably missing something, but is anybody else having this problem?

I am on build 84

 

[Rob Lohman]

Not a new cry but in this day and age of common codebases I'd like to see it happen close to simultaneously. No RedRocket support on the PC side that I am aware of.

It is on a common code base. Most of us internally are using Mac, so it was just build & verified first. We immediately build the Windows version but there was a specific issue with that which is getting fixed right now.

Windows version fully supports Rocket!

In an ideal future scenario though, the SDK would support RedCine-X's LOOK format and metadata in other applications so I could use RedCine-X to grade a shot, save the resulting LOOK file alongside it and have Premiere Pro (or FCP if you're Mac based) recognise and use it automatically.

We use the SDK internally for all our products. It will support the look format and everything will be available to SDK subscribers. They of course need a certain amount of time to integrate the new stuff on their end.

 

[David Cox]

Suggestions

Suggestions

Two things:

1. The toggle for Rocket Setting pops up and needs an extra "ok" click to pass it to the card. It also forgets the last setting to Enable PSF and one has to check it again each time. I would be nice to toggle to Rocket and back with one click and be able to pull up settings with another tab.

2. The histogram function does not operate when in Rocket view.

Nice work guys!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Most, probably all, of what I'm going to add here is repeat, but this is what I want to see most and what issues I'm having:

* Needs to have a way to save the interface layout. Would be nice to create multiple configs, but let's start with at least saving our window positions.

* Less wasted space. As cool as the window headers are, they're wasting pixels. Would like to expand and collapse windows to tabs and have other means of consolidating. Really liked the mouse gesture features in old REDCINE to push and pull panels on or off the display.

* Clip browser window can't be re-sized beyond a certain width/height. Kinda annoying if I pull it over to a second display and want to make it bigger. than what it currently allows.

* Histogram completely disappears when the Rocket monitor output is enabled.

* Playback is slow with the Rocket. ROCKETCINE played back clips smooth as butter at full res, full debayer. REDCINE-X is giving me only 17-19fps on 4K RC36 playback at full res/quality and I'm reading the clips from both a ~300MB/s RAID and a ~550MB/s RAID. 4xHD mode can also be a bit slow, 4K 2:1 usually is fine. 3K and 2K modes are like butter.

 

[Ryan S]

I'll admit I'm a complete amateur in the colour department, but I'm learning. Redcolor and Redgamma are great- the colour just seems to pop in a way I haven't seen before. However, it's the FLUT control that's really impressing me. I'm not entirely sure what it's doing, but it's doing it well!