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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New mount...

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Jannard said:
The lens mount is exactly parallel to the sensor from the factory. If you get one that is not, we will replace or fix your camera. We have not had one instance of this happening. The sensor is hard fixed to the body/mount structure and I doubt you could bend the body out of shape. :-)

Jim
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It looks really rock solid, thank you Jim and team that you hopefully improoved a technique which was like it ever was all this days before RED: rock solid but flintstoned ;-)
 
Jannard said:
I don't think that is a fair statement. The original mount works just like all film cameras... it was shim based. Every RED ONE out there with the old mount can be adjusted to be perfect. But all mounts need to be checked and adjusted for "feature film" perfection. And the shim based systems only allow trained professionals to do it. Add in the need for a complete set of shims for any technician to do it and you have a recipe for delays and disappointment.

Soderbergh's 1st AC checked the mount every single day while shooting two movies on RED prototypes. He never adjusted the mounts once (he did adjust all of them prior to the beginning of the shoot).

Our old mount was not flawed, although the setup of some of them was, which meant they had to be reset. I just did not like the concept of "it has always been done this way, so let's keep doing it that way. This mount is better. Much better. That speaks to the core philosophy of RED.

Jim
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To clarify not meant to be a dig at the co. I'd rather see objective comments and questions that "raaaaa!!!!! f*****king awesome!!!!!!" Of course everyone is entitled to react.....

Anyway, further to what you have said above, are you able to give a basic outline of how adjustment is done on the mount? I'm guessing that the fact that you are putting an adjustable mount on a camera that can be brought by "John Doe" (ie non-tech), that it must be a lot simpler than say, the panavision adjustable mounts.

Also would be interested to know more about what the issue was with the original mounts as I had the impression that a lot of them did have a problem and that once calibrated it was not consistant across lens sets.
 
Jannard said:
The original mount works just like all film cameras... it was shim based. Every RED ONE out there with the old mount can be adjusted to be perfect. But all mounts need to be checked and adjusted for "feature film" perfection.
Jim
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Hi
Don't want to dwell on the old, but quite interested in this. I was involved in trying to prefect one of the mounts and managed to get to a stage where it was 'perfect' enough for most modern 35mm lens sets, but we couldn't get PL adapted lenses or 16mm lens to work with the same mount, which tells me that the mount wasn't able to accomodate all lens sets.

Also, with the new mount, if I adjust to one set of lenses, will it not neccessarily work with another set? (or individuals??) If this is the case, it would be more like having backfocus on a video camera, except the adjustment is moved to the camera rather than being on the lens. And will we potentially have to check or fine tune the port on each lens change?

My understanding with a film camera is once the lens port it is correctly callibrated it will work with all lenses that fit that port. If it is out, it isn't callibrated to a particular lense or lens set, but to a measurent for that port type as such (I haven't actually seen it being done, so don't know how best to describe)
 
Jim,

Do the Birger mounts or any other planned mount from Red fit within the adjustable section so that they also can be finely balanced, or does the whole thing get replaced so this is part of the PL mount?

Paul
 
redicule said:
Also would be interested to know more about what the issue was with the original mounts as I had the impression that a lot of them did have a problem and that once calibrated it was not consistant across lens sets.
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I think your impression is faulty... no disrespect intended.

If different lenses are not calibrated, it is the lens that is out. That is a big problem in this industry. Not all PL mount lenses are accurate or calibrated properly.

If the original RED mount was set up correctly and the lenses are properly calibrated, there is/was no problem.

Some of the cameras that got out were not properly set up (most were). That was the issue we had. To fix this issue, we had customers that sent their cameras back and some went to rental houses for calibration. But they didn't have our shims. And so on... that's when I said we needed to change this program.

Now, they are absolutely set up properly at RED. If there is ANY reason why they need to be checked and adjusted (not likely but possible) it is a piece of cake.

Just keep in mind that there are two things that need to be right... the camera AND the lens.

Jim
 
Hi Jim,

Could there be a witness mark, where the mount should be correct. I can see people fiddling & wishing they had not!

My best,

Stephen
 
'I just did not like the concept of "it has always been done this way, so let's keep doing it that way. This mount is better.'

congrats on your new lens mount jim! but one reason it has been done the old way for such a long time is, when you have to find space around a rotating mirror, shims just take less space. you on the other hand have the whole 52mm free of 'obstacles' ...anyway..nice work

mountshimlt5.jpg
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Jim,

Could there be a witness mark, where the mount should be correct. I can see people fiddling & wishing they had not!

My best,

Stephen
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For SURE.

Please take your camera to a PROFESSIONAL RENTAL HOUSE.

This is a PROFESSIONAL camera - not a point and shoot camcorder.

Put it on a collimator bench. Check it. Adjust it if need be. Lock it down.

Don't fiddle. Please don't fiddle.

Don't adjust "in the field" - unless you HAVE to - (you shouldn't) and you have a field collimator (Red should make one) -
 
I've never dealt with adjusting back focus before. Is it necessary to have a collimator or can you do it with a long lens, a tape measure, and a res chart from 20 feet?
 
Jannard said:
I just did not like the concept of "it has always been done this way, so let's keep doing it that way. This mount is better. Much better. That speaks to the core philosophy of RED.

Jim
Click to expand...

THAT'S why I do not complain about delays, and am perfectly willing to trust the RED Cinema Camera Company, or whatever the official title, to deliver the best goods.
 
Hi,

I have set up cameras FFD myself using a depth gauge & checking afterwards with a collimator. Having a cheap collimator would be very useful.

Stephen I like to take lens mounts apart Williams

offhollywood said:
For SURE.

Please take your camera to a PROFESSIONAL RENTAL HOUSE.

This is a PROFESSIONAL camera - not a point and shoot camcorder.

Put it on a collimator bench. Check it. Adjust it if need be. Lock it down.

Don't fiddle. Please don't fiddle.

Don't adjust "in the field" - unless you HAVE to - (you shouldn't) and you have a field collimator (Red should make one) -
Click to expand...
 
erbp said:
I've never dealt with adjusting back focus before. Is it necessary to have a collimator or can you do it with a long lens, a tape measure, and a res chart from 20 feet?
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You would probably want to use your widest lens not your longest. Longer lenses have more fudge room, wides require much tighter tolerances.
 
I am still thinking about the P+S Technik Interchangeable lens mount system.

It looks like this new PL mount can be removed from the body altogether, leaving just a tiny bit of space above the body.

A entirely new standard front end can be custom built on top of that, very close to the imaging sensor, and zeroed in. The P+S mount adapters would fit on top of that.

Could be a big thing, to be honest.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Really? It looks glossy to me but I don't see how one could judge its build quality from a glamour shot. :gun:
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hey dont be knocking the glamour shots:)

Trust me.. i spent alot of time trying to break the new mount, its pretty tough..
 
Nikon mount is instead of PL, with luck it will be as adjustable as the PL. Bear in mind that Nikon lenses are not collimated in the first place so it probably is not important as you will need to focus by eye.

SW
 
Stephen Williams said:
Nikon mount is instead of PL, with luck it will be as adjustable as the PL. Bear in mind that Nikon lenses are not collimated in the first place so it probably is not important as you will need to focus by eye.

SW
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What do you mean? You mean I've been overkilling myself micro-collimating my Brevis35 Nikon mount?
 
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