New Camera called Craft?

[Levi Arnold]

Then it's DOA

Possibly, unless the've figured out a better way to process the image from that sensor. If they haven't and the noise is the same it'll be a tough sell for anyone outside the DSLR market. Could be similar to the AXIOM Beta sensor too? Idk. Sent them an email about some footage and stuff.

 

[Ian MacLean]

Then it's DOA

Noob lurker here. Why? Because of the format, or is there some limitation in the hardware?

 

[Levi Arnold]

Noob lurker here. Why? Because of the format, or is there some limitation in the hardware?

Saumene may be able to answer better than I can. From my experience, the sensor in the BMCC and BMPCC is fantastic...below 800 or 1000 ISO. I'm not sure if it's a sensor limitation or if Black Magic doesn't have the proper hardware in place to pull a better signal out of the sensor. If it's the same sensor as the BMCC and BMPCC with the same low ISO then I'll probably still get it(Craft Camera) because the price and modularity is a no brainer for a B-Cam.

 

[M.Halsell]

Has Craft posted any early footage from a working prototype?

 

[Christoffer Glans]

From history we should be aware that people thought Red was vaporware before release. So I won't judge a camera before we have seen and know more about it. But my educated guess is that this will flop. It's like they've taken the modularity of Red and ten folded it. Red has been getting a lot of negative criticism on the modularity part and I feel they have held back a little on how modular the camera can actually be, which often is better because it's not a totally unreckognizable camera everytime you encounted a new Red of the same type. This however feels like a good concept that won't work at all later on.

If companies want to compete on the digital cinema market they must A) Give the best image available and B) Give a camera that is reliable and C) Give a camera body that people feel is working on set with all that a set demands.

 

[David W. Jones]

Looks to be around $3K for a 4K camera.

I would love to beta test it, but then most companies don't like me as a beta tester. While I honor my NDA, I also speak my mind without sugar coating it. :mad5:

 

[Saumene Mehrdady]

Noob lurker here. Why? Because of the format, or is there some limitation in the hardware?

Because they are probably using off the shelf FPGA's and sensors and not custom ones, so the image won't be anything unique or special or optimized. It keeps the costs down for them. The market leaders (red and arri) make custom sensors for a reason.

the image will probably look like BM cams, which look like the aja cion, etc. nothing special.

and i gotta say...that modular piece diagram on their site and the way that side handle looks...total DSMC ripoff lol

 

[Maik Müller]

It was only a matter of time until someone else comes up with a modular camera-system. Maybe they got ehm inspired by the Axiom Development too, maybe they're using an "old" sensor... It's not groundbreaking new stuff there, but their design-concept looks nice and clean, the specs are great for todays needs and the pricing looks competitive. Cool! Let's see prototypes and sample images. If they can bring this to market, maybe even with less bugs than BM , then it's a good thing for everyone. Competition and options are always great things to have.

So far, just a cool concept-study. Clearly inspired by RED...

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

There's a lot of room for innovation. Look at BM's Pocket S16. RAW or ProRes in a very small package. I think I want one, just to play with. Yes, it's limited, but that's exactly the point. And nobody has a product like that. So who is going to do a 4K version of that? Copying RED might work to a point but it isn't going to make you market leader.

 

[M.Halsell]

We didn't get our new sensor fix from the major players this go round, other than the 2015 announcements. That leaves Craft holding the bag.

Outside looking in, the challenge seem formidable. The unit itself, the connecting pieces look sexy. The site does mention that the final specs are to come. Just at first glance:

* the menu buttons look tiny
* does the LCD swivel around when using menu buttons? The LCD screen is tiny?
* what size/price are the batteries? Power options seem limited
* potential mounting issues due to size
* Filtration IR, Low Pass
* sensor size
* shutter angles/speeds available
* ISO/EI options

Upfront Craft should avoid advertising 13 stops, if the camera can only deliver 8 or so practical stops. CION/BM have already tried that smooth move.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

The New Apple - Craft. The Design Thread.

The New Apple - Craft. The Design Thread.

http://www.craftcamera.com

[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/163181999[/video]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g64ztv6phixqa6s/craft-press-release-04:18.pdf?dl=0

Firstly Complaints. I went to the website yesterday, my time, and it only had a message that it was coming very soon. Yet now I find on the price list, with images of the camera component, was put up on the 16th. I have still not received an update email.

Finally a camera designed right. This is the Apple that we all wished Apple would be.

It appears a well thought out flexible and extensible structure.

It includes 4kp50 for the price, thank you.

The modules have agreeable styling, put a pair of Italian sunglasses on (sorry Jim) and you would not look out of style with this wondering the streets of Rome or Paris. No dire retro looking box shapes here. Reminds me more of the agreeable Red One.

I do not agree completely with all elements. During the discussion on the design of the Axiom camera module system, it became obvious that what was needed was not so much a module system but a variable seized blade system, as a number of modules would have a fair bit of empty space otherwise. This does not seem to go the full way, but is compact.

The 13 stops latitude is 1-3 less stops than desirable.

The price of the 4k camera setup is more than desirable. Adding one or two lens and all in one cinema and action modules would be desirable. This is still old economy pricing. Alternatively, adding a base common function module plus cinema and action extension modules would help. The separate handeling of functions into modules greatly adds to the price for the customer.

With the limited stop range this is the poor man's Red, but still stuck between the Reds and a future BM 4k pocket in price. Unique modules are good for uncommon functions but otherwise a distinct liability. Hence integrating common functions by purpose into single modules, or the main unit, is desirable, and including them discounted packs as standard. So a future BM pocket solution can undercut on this basis.

It should be out now, not latter when a new round of BM and Red cameras are coming (if not here).

Altogether, BM might have more to worry about than Red as direct competition. As for the market moving downwards that is another story.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Looks to be around $3K for a 4K camera.

I would love to beta test it, but then most companies don't like me as a beta tester. While I honor my NDA, I also speak my mind without sugar coating it. :mad5:

Then I need you as a beta tester David. As long as somebody beta testing is flexible and can take direction to determine the range under which it works/doesn't work, then not sugar coating is fine.

Because they are probably using off the shelf FPGA's and sensors and not custom ones, so the image won't be anything unique or special or optimized. It keeps the costs down for them. The market leaders (red and arri) make custom sensors for a reason.

the image will probably look like BM cams, which look like the aja cion, etc. nothing special.

and i gotta say...that modular piece diagram on their site and the way that side handle looks...total DSMC ripoff lol

Just remember, that is the way you make it, even in old JVC hybrid concept cameras.

FPGA is not.optimal compared to using modern mobile ARM parts, or NVIDIA, but maybe around longer than.those phone parts, which is important.

Guys.

There a few different sensor options around apart from the one BM used. Axiom listed a number of them. Having a look at the specs of available sensors by the end of the year you maybe able to figure out which.

Remember Axiom is on the horizon and probably will l be similarly priced.

Even though we might not compare this to dragon favourably, it does not need to be to be sellable and useful.

 

[Petr Dvorak]

Only 3D concept, promises, no footage, nothing to show and already asking for money.
Long way to go.
Lots of guinea pigs.

 

[Zeb B]

Seems that someone knows how to make pretty product drawings in SolidWorks. Lot's more still to do before any fucks given by me

 

[Billy Jim]

"I heard that Craft Camera is actually owned / started up by RED."

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?17058-Craft-Camera&p=206762&viewfull=1#post206762

 

[David W. Jones]

"I heard that Craft Camera is actually owned / started up by RED."

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?17058-Craft-Camera&p=206762&viewfull=1#post206762

Ha, now you know where all those trade-ins went! :coolgleamA:

 

[Christoffer Glans]

"I heard that Craft Camera is actually owned / started up by RED."

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?17058-Craft-Camera&p=206762&viewfull=1#post206762

These people... :leaving:

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Well that's a completely different thread on design, not cheerleaders.

http://www.craftcamera.com

[video]http://player.vimeo.com/video/163181999[/video]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g64ztv6phixqa6s/craft-press-release-04:18.pdf?dl=0

Firstly Complaints. I went to the website yesterday, my time, and it only had a message that it was coming very soon. Yet now I find on the price list, with images of the camera component, was put up on the 16th. I have still not received an update email.

Finally a camera designed right. This is the Apple that we all wished Apple would be.

It appears a well thought out flexible and extensible structure.

It includes 4kp50 for the price, thank you.

The modules have agreeable styling, put a pair of Italian sunglasses on (sorry Jim) and you would not look out of style with this wondering the streets of Rome or Paris. No dire retro looking box shapes here. Reminds me more of the agreeable Red One.

I do not agree completely with all elements. During the discussion on the design of the Axiom camera module system, it became obvious that what was needed was not so much a module system but a variable seized blade system, as a number of modules would have a fair bit of empty space otherwise. This does not seem to go the full way, but is compact.

The 13 stops latitude is 1-3 less stops than desirable.

The price of the 4k camera setup is more than desirable. Adding one or two lens and all in one cinema and action modules would be desirable. This is still old economy pricing. Alternatively, adding a base common function module plus cinema and action extension modules would help. The separate handeling of functions into modules greatly adds to the price for the customer.

With the limited stop range this is the poor man's Red, but still stuck between the Reds and a future BM 4k pocket in price. Unique modules are good for uncommon functions but otherwise a distinct liability. Hence integrating common functions by purpose into single modules, or the main unit, is desirable, and including them discounted packs as standard. So a future BM pocket solution can undercut on this basis.

It should be out now, not latter when a new round of BM and Red cameras are coming (if not here).

Altogether, BM might have more to worry about than Red as direct competition. As for the market moving downwards that is another story.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Only 3D concept, promises, no footage, nothing to show and already asking for money.
Long way to go.
Lots of guinea pigs.

The cardboard craft camera is old, and this has been going on for a while, any kick starter. So I imagine it has backing.and is substantial Petr.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

"I heard that Craft Camera is actually owned / started up by RED."

http://bmcuser.com/showthread.php?17058-Craft-Camera&p=206762&viewfull=1#post206762

Lol! If I knew I could have approached Jim to do my own cheap cinema camera product. No wonder I have not heard back about my request to beta tester. Having seen it now, I'm even more interested in being abbeta tester, definitely.

If this is true I'm very interested in buying one. And good on you Jim.

This camera definitely has it's sexy on.

It is still expensive though. I wasn't interested in competing at Jim's level, but even just producing a consumer product with professional features and basic level of professional performance, with 100 times the sales for economies of scale. So your $200 fhd camera becomes one that is capable of recording professional level fhd. A $400 camera becomes capable of at least outputimg 4k, but have a good manual control set. Most people buying would be normal people using the auto modes that either just bought it or were recommended it by enthusiast friends or store owners. The next group would be enthusiasts. The next group video professionals and journalists (the journalists might boost numbers bigger than the enthusiast group). The last group cinema people wanting a cheap B or C camera. The concept I promoted years ago was The Directors Viewfinder. So, with a speed booster an s35mm+ view can be obtained. As such, a sensor bigger than 1/2.3 inch is not needed, though something 1/2-2/3-s16 is desirable. Whatever is cheap and gives reasonable picture.

However, that was just a basic camera. I wanted to do a medium format 3D 4k design camera, but that is so advanced it would require heaps of investment to get the 5mm thick form factor and new technologies. However, I have several new format camera designs using new mechanical designs. One was a pen sized 3D camera that has some stability for pro use., not cinema. As such it doesnt matter if it is 720p, as long as it works, as it is eye popping. So these things are more at go pro level than Red. Somebody will pick me up one day.