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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New 8k "monitor" for Monstro

I think that's the minimum size for 8K to see the difference...
 
Japanese broadcaster NHK has confirmed its long-held plans to start 8K broadcasts by the end of this year by announcing a brand-new channel, BS8K, that will launch on December 1st 2018.

Always a good reason to introduce something new.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I think that's the minimum size for 8K to see the difference...
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Lol, no. But they will have some nice imagery on it :) As will LG :)

What a 175 inch UHD 8K display gives you is the ability to have an excellent viewing experience between 9-17 feet away from the display, for those who like to really get up in there, as close as 5.5 feet.
 
Phil Holland said:
Lol, no. But they will have some nice imagery on it :) As will LG :)

What a 175 inch UHD 8K display gives you is the ability to have an excellent viewing experience between 9-17 feet away from the display, for those who like to really get up in there, as close as 5.5 feet.
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LOL yes Phil. Who are you kidding ? ;-)
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
LOL yes Phil. Who are you kidding ? ;-)
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Specially for the "first row in the cinema viewers", with these kind of resolution they can actually see a part of the movie instead of just some colored blocks.
 
The industry is pushing harder to 16k at 100"

The product is equipped with the latest video chip, high-transmittance pixel design, high brightness, 16K8K high resolution (15360x8640), wide viewing angle and wide color gamut, to present images with sharper outline and stereoscopic feeling. No pixel dot would be detected at even as close as 50 cm. The combination of 16K and 100 inch panel enhance the image realism. It is very eye-catching to have one single panel presenting such a large view at any occasion.

http://www.innolux.com/Pages/en/News/News342_en.html

From PHFX.com

THX Recommended Viewing Distances for a 100" diagonal of screen

Ideal Viewing = 119.0 inches (9.92 feet)
Longest Allowed Viewing = 191.2 inches (15.93 feet)
Longest Recommended Viewing = 135.7 inches (11.31 feet)
Shortest Allowed Viewing = 62.9 inches (5.24 feet)
20/20 Human Vision Acuity = 37.2 inches (3.10 feet) **
** typically there's no advantage to sitting closer than this
 
To me a 30" 5k desktop screen for sure looks more defined than the same size 4k screen. That is when sitting like 50cm away, something I do that pretty much all day, every day. Have not seen a 8k screen but I´m sure at such size as mentioned here the difference would be relevant. But then ofcourse you need footy to match.
 
Björn Benckert said:
To me a 30" 5k desktop screen for sure looks more defined than the same size 4k screen. That is when sitting like 50cm away, something I do that pretty much all day, every day. Have not seen a 8k screen but I´m sure at such size as mentioned here the difference would be relevant. But then ofcourse you need footy to match.
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Agreed, though I have spicy thoughts on using off-standard displays. If I was king of the world I'd certainly have more DCI aspect ratio displays out in the wild in 4K and 8K resolutions. LG did a solid on that front and other professional grading monitors for 4K. I'm curious if we'll get anything like that in 8K.

I have seen various upcoming 30-40" UHD 8K displays and those are pretty impressive. The 13" UHD 8K screen from a year ago is somewhere way down the line I think, but was also something neat. Remember the real push for 8K starts actually next year, though there will be a real nice punch at IFA 2018. We'll see lots of different sizes pop up in a year.

In the home, I have a 70" 8K display in my living room at the moment and I think if there's ever going to be anything else in there I can support something in the 90"-ish arena depending on bezel size, which at this point are usually barely there.

The real key thing for larger televisions of a larger size is nailing their off axis viewing as even in that 7-9 foot typical range with several people checking out the same content it is rare somebody is sat dead center.

Overseas a lot of the focus is on 8K @ 60fps, though personally my focus is a bit more cinematically minded. I can only touch on the amazing conversations I've had about this in the last couple of years, but their have been rather heated meetings. It is indeed the technologist versus the artist sometimes, even within myself on occasion, but I never ignore the creative intentions and what we are trying to show the audience. I do think 8K at 60p will have a HUGE impact on sports broadcast though, which is a hint at why it's important leading up to the Olympics.

At this point the real trick is where 8K goes from here on the camera side. RED actually in my opinion hit the nail square on with Helium and Monstro, especially where I am seeing them used and how I'm using them. But my wandering eye drifts off and the mind wonders about sensors and framerates on our tiny little cameras in the future. Some of my recent 12K and 16K footage is ending up on these new 8K screens and downsampling benefits are still downsampling benefits :)
 
"In the home, I have a 70" 8K display in my living room at the moment and I think if there's ever going to be anything else in there I can support something in the 90"-ish arena depending on bezel size, which at this point are usually barely there.

The real key thing for larger televisions of a larger size is nailing their off axis viewing as even in that 7-9 foot typical range with several people checking out the same content it is rare somebody is sat dead center."

This seems to me to be where people are going to be impressed enough to buy into the 8k world. Back when 4k was first introduced at CES and NAB, they had painted feet markers onto the floor in front of the screens, so that you would hit the sweet spot that is only one row deep, 8k on a large enough screen has a few rows and is a much more social, movie theater type of experience, When bars across the USA/World put in big 8k screens for the Olympics and people see the effect, like looking out a private box in a sports stadium, it will filter out to homes, the question being how are you going to get a large enough screen into the home, as Phil points out.
 
There will be standout screen sizes target at "not the common home or apartment" well above 100" diagonal, which will in essence be showpieces and suitable for large rooms and businesses for sure. Honestly they are impressive, like scary good.

Everybody is different and some people merely watch content on laptops now, which is why those 13-15.6" 8K screens were being produced, though the mobile GPU to drive those displays is miles away, erm, or like 1.2 miles away I guess now. When I saw 8K on the tiny screens and being a couple feet away, like you would with a laptop, it was mesmerizing.

I have to give Dell some love here as they were the first to push out an 8K monitor well ahead of the wave, it was/is a decent screen. More is coming on that front for sure. In my experience with that little bad boy it produced a lot of interesting thoughts like how can we look deeper into the OS and applications to maximize productivity with screens like this?

There's a few answers I came up with for some of the common things I do on a computer for sure and that's got me jazzed. Hoping for something in the 30-40" range for on the desk use at some point. DCI 8K would be a real plus, but I don't know if anybody other than 2 companies is really interested in that and at the moment that resolution is more theater minded than home minded.

All of this is good news as the TVs in general are becoming higher quality as these technologies develop.

Oh man. The last decade or so makes me laugh when looking back at it. But hey guys, remember 2K is good enough? Remember!!!! I mean there's still different markets, but anything within my blast radius is at a minimum finishing out at 4K at this point. Just took a bit to get people to open their eyes I guess. Everybody "sees" the advantage, and by everybody I mean the general public, which is why this is all truly happening. When the audience can see it, it's pretty hard to argue against it. I don't have a screen under 4K in my house other than some on set monitors at this point, which leads me to what's coming down the line in the future on that front :) That's a whole other discussion regarding monitoring and all that as there is some relevance to the what happens on set versus in a post environment, but for now I'll need to hush on this topic.
 
Phil's hint about on set monitoring appropriate for shooting 8K imagery is great to hear. I've repeatedly pressed RED to make higher resolution monitoring a priority. Perhaps the wait for the high brightness monitor Jarred teased a while back is tied to an increase in resolution - no inside info, just hoping...

Panavision's DXL rigs based on Monstro chips feature UHD monitor taps, so it can be done. That said, PV has put a great deal of engineering and processing power into the Millennium program, so, for all we know, it's another $30K in parts and 15w of added power consumption.

Roughy 3 years into DSMC2, it seemed that UHD monitoring wouldn't happen until DSMC3 is released in 2020. Perhaps we are closer than I know - which would be very helpful when shooting MonstroVV in situations where a tape measure and solid marks are not going to happen.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Phil's hint about on set monitoring appropriate for shooting 8K imagery is great to hear. I've repeatedly pressed RED to make higher resolution monitoring a priority. Perhaps the wait for the high brightness monitor Jarred teased a while back is tied to an increase in resolution - no inside info, just hoping...

Cheers - #19
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Yes, I REALLY miss a higher resolution monitoring. Or even an output that is 4k would be really helpful. For example SmallHD can take a 4k input and then you can zoom in 2x. I just do not understand how we are supposed to get sharp focus on moving animals when we can only see them in 2k.
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I think that's the minimum size for 8K to see the difference...
Click to expand...

Agreed. And you would still need to be about a meter or two from the screen.

The Sharp 8k display at 70" is around 126ppi. A 27" 5K iMac display is around 218ppi. As a display gets larger the viewing distance is going to increase of course, so the need for higher ppi decreases. I would be interested to see a blind test of people sitting at the ideal viewing distance from an 8k 70" display and 4k 70" display both playing the same 8k content at 1:1 and scaled down on the 4k to see at what point they could see a difference.

I am interested to see if 8k in the home or even in the theater ever makes sense. After a certain resolution higher ppi is much more important for devices that have detailed UI than it is for video. 8k in the theater might be nice for people that for whatever reason like to sit in the front rows.
 
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