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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New 3D 4K Camera

Going... going...

I see a thread close in the near future.

Seem to be ripping a bit of red philosophy, but not executing it with style. And lenses...
 
Well, I'm not going to begrudge any start up from creating their own camera platform and taking a shot at improving the marketplace with innovation. Good luck to these guys.

However...this is a prime example on the lower side of the competition of why Jim has decided not to telegraph products and feature sets anymore. Everything from the body design, NATO rigs to the very language used in the video (modular, obsolescence etc) screams of a poor imitation of RED rather than creating a unique brand. Plus there's no footage, swapping out sensors smells like a Ricoh-alike hassle, they look like 2/3" chips and the whole open source approach screams of an un-unified potential for unreliability. If i'm renting a camera I need to know it'll function perfectly or at least know that it's currently on build-x and potential pitfalls/solutions are in the back of my mind.

Nice try and good luck.
 
Competition is good. Interesting system. Lacks a lot of style and flair that RED has. But this is just further evidence of the modular approach being the way of the future.

Like RED, they are adopting the NATO/STANAG / Picatinny rail system for accessory attachment. It makes total sense -- it's a total no-brainer that I'm surprised so many have overlooked it for so long.

Based on the side by side layout of the camera and overall size, it seems like 4/3rds or 1/2" is probably about the largest sensor that the camera can use for 3D shooting, unless I'm missing something.

Agree with Eren on the open source aspect. Not sure I'm a big fan of it... Not if I want a reliable camera system that is set up to work a certain way, whether I buy one or rent one or whatever. OTOH, if they can get the price down, it would be a great specific-use camera or hacker camera that could be adaptable where other closed systems are not.
 
Eren Ozkural said:
... and the whole open source approach screams of an un-unified potential for unreliability.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'll bite. Eren, it works like this: Put an open platform out and let people do whatever they want with it. That's cool in its own right: Freedom, owning your tools and all. But of course people will come up with staggering crap. Some won't. They'll build great stuff which just might flow back to the main platform. Platform progresses while the crap turns into embarrassing bitdust (Yes, well, except with the GNOME dudes). The process can be excruciating and violent and extremely rewarding at the same time. It is, I reckon, on all platforms, be they closed or open. Only with open source it is happening in broad daylight. And being able to know what's really going on is not the worst customer experience, in my book.

So you don't know the first thing about software development. That's alright, it's not the greatest skill on earth. I know zip about Ricoh cameras. Hence I won't pinknoise about them.
 
I think the "open" sensor-swapping capability is what will probably get people excited about this camera. Unfortunately, the $50,000 or $27,000 pa 4-year lease takes it out of the hands of most of the people who care about "open" cameras.

Also, it seems, most of the "industry" types that frequent Certain Mailing Lists hate just about anything that has any possibility of being multiple things. RED is hard to swallow for a lot of people because they have to deal with figuring out whose rig it's using, what firmware it is on, etc. People like a camera, like Jeff was saying, that just is. A RED Epic-X only ships with the RED S35 Mysterium-X sensor. No third party sensors, no different formats. Want a different format? Buy a different brain.

We'll see what happens!
 
While I think an open source camera like this will generate a large amount of crap, it will still be a compelling solution for some. It's a chance for larger houses like Cameron-Pace, Panavision, BandPro, AbelCine, etc.. to work with some competent developers and build their own color science, operating software, etc.. Stuff that they can market as their own. Sure, there may soon be a dozen places to rent this camera, but it could end up where everyone only wants to rent from Panavision because they have the best onboard software and companion toolset to work with it.

I think the open source aspect is what could ultimately make or break this camera platform. I think Michael is right though. The majority of independent users and hacker types who will be passionate about an open system like this will probably be priced out of the game.

Potentially still a great opportunity for those who can acquire the camera and still have the resources to build a powerful toolset to go along with it.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
It's a chance for larger houses like Cameron-Pace, Panavision, BandPro, AbelCine, etc.. to work with some competent developers and build their own color science, operating software, etc.. Stuff that they can market as their own. Sure, there may soon be a dozen places to rent this camera, but it could end up where everyone only wants to rent from Panavision because they have the best onboard software and companion toolset to work with it.
Click to expand...

I didn't even think of that, but it makes huge amounts of sense.

I also think it's interesting that one of their two in house sensors is 4/3". Hum.
 
I saw this system at NAB, they had a booth on the main floor. IIRC their whole approach was a rental/lease model (more like Panavision) where they can update the equipment with new sensors, electronics, etc. as they develop new stuff. From what I could tell at NAB they look like a fairly serious, decently financed outfit.

If you take a look at what Cmosis and others are doing, you can see that high res, high frame rate full color sensors are becoming commoditized. They are taking more of an industrial/machine vision approach to how they mount the sensor/lens portion as in many ways that is more appropriate for 3D. And many 3D people feel that smaller sensors/greater DOF makes more sense for 3D as well.

BTW, I've known the bald headed guy for about twenty years (although I hadn't seen him since the 90s-he had hair then). Jon is the guy that went to Russia right after the wall came down and started importing the K3 Krasnogorsk 16mm camera that was a very popular student camera throughout the 90s since you could buy the camera with zoom lenses and 3 filters for $599, and I think he sold a couple thousand of them.
 
I thought that was John Kitzen! I worked for him a tiny bit years ago, and he was even a student of mine at NYU!

Looks like he's back into the pro movie cam game again.
 
Hey Wolfgang,

I've been an avid user of Blender for the past 6 years. I know the wonders/pitfalls of an open source software platform. I can work with it on post. Something doesn't work? Debug. Mess around with Python scripting or just roll back to a stable version. Whatever.

Not when I'm filming. My clients don't tolerate errors due to software/firmware. I do a lot of location filming around the world (just shot a Stereo 3D TV series in Europe) and sometimes you only have one moment to capture what you need.

Speaking of "owning your tools" their business model seems to be built on leasing/rental.

I'm saying that competiton is good, this is interesting however in it's current stage this camera system isn't for me at the moment.

Please don't take that insulting tone with me assuming I don't know the first thing about software development and accuse me of "pinknoise". This is a forum for people to constructively exchange information on RED products, technique and the occasional news about other cameras. Please consider this and change your frankly immature attitude.

have a nice day.

Wolfgang Woehl said:
Ok, I'll bite. Eren, it works like this: Put an open platform out and let people do whatever they want with it. That's cool in its own right: Freedom, owning your tools and all. But of course people will come up with staggering crap. Some won't. They'll build great stuff which just might flow back to the main platform. Platform progresses while the crap turns into embarrassing bitdust (Yes, well, except with the GNOME dudes). The process can be excruciating and violent and extremely rewarding at the same time. It is, I reckon, on all platforms, be they closed or open. Only with open source it is happening in broad daylight. And being able to know what's really going on is not the worst customer experience, in my book.

So you don't know the first thing about software development. That's alright, it's not the greatest skill on earth. I know zip about Ricoh cameras. Hence I won't pinknoise about them.
Click to expand...
 
It's compelling idea but we really won't know if it's any good unless someone decides to shoot a 3D film on it, the idea does make sense though if you really wan't to shoot a 3D film you should get a camera built for 3D instead of strapping 2 together with some crazy syncing system and leave the post production mess to some assistant editor or however it's done.
 
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