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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Scarlet Upgrade Program

PC Greene said:
Is there any possibility of a Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon upgrade? Wed probably prefer the extra stops & resolution initially but would like to upgrade to Epic Dragon later for max frame rates. Thank you...
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I heard from several sources including Bomb squad, that this will not be an upgrade available. If you want to end up with a Epic-Dragon, you need to go with the Epic MX upgrade path
 
Scarlet-D for me. Though I've been craving an Epic since the day it came out, plus some more since I received my gateway drug called Scarlet, 2000 Native ISO, new color science and more Dynamic range sound very appealing to me... plus I'm very nostalgic about keeping the camera that took me 5 years of saving money to get it :)
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I'm going to keep hounding on this but... if we choose the Epic-X upgrade path can we get an Epic-X.... tomorrow? This would be a HUGE sweetening to the deal.
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Haven't found any info either way, but my suspicion is that when the innards are pulled from an Epic while it receives the Dragon implant, those discarded innards will go into a new case together with the necessary parts from your traded in Scarlet. And if I'm right then the Scarlet -> Epic route will be just as bogged down in the queue as anything else. However, one thing that might mean that this route is quicker, is simply that it's less of a good deal so fewer people may choose it.
 
For the poor of us, might there be a lowering on the price of the original Scarlet when Scarlet-D is out?
 
Robert L. Mickles said:
That is not the full final specs. It's guaranteed to do 5K at 60fps but they're not sure what its capable of at 6K yet. At the very least I'm
sure that there will be some type of 6K mode for stills and time lapses. But we all are praying for 6K at 24fps, which seems very possible.
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On the face of it, 5K at 24fps seemed possible from Scarlet Classic, but no amount of praying would have got us that because it's one of the key differentiators between Epic and Scarlet. Likewise I'd be amazed if they chose to narrow the line even further when talking about Epic Dragon vs Scarlet Dragon.
 
Paul S. said:
On the face of it, 5K at 24fps seemed possible from Scarlet Classic, but no amount of praying would have got us that because it's one of the key differentiators between Epic and Scarlet. Likewise I'd be amazed if they chose to narrow the line even further when talking about Epic Dragon vs Scarlet Dragon.
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Don't you think this is a bit different? Reason being Scarlet was maxing at 24 in 4K already, so if you took that as gospel there's no way it was going to do the same when stepping up in resolution. In this case, rather than maxing at 24 in 5K, it maxes at 60 frames. Logically there is reasonable expectation for just less than half that framerate when stepping up this time.
 
Scott C said:
Don't you think this is a bit different? Reason being Scarlet was maxing at 24 in 4K already, so if you took that as gospel there's no way it was going to do the same when stepping up in resolution. In this case, rather than maxing at 24 in 5K, it maxes at 60 frames. Logically there is reasonable expectation for just less than half that framerate when stepping up this time.
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No, it maxed at 30fps, and that's at full height. So there was good reason to think there was a bit more under the hood than 12fps at 5K - that extra 6fps headroom may have allowed 24fps 5K mode for at least 2:1 or wider.

Besides which Phil Holland's NAB journal suggests Jarred was quite clear there won't be 6K functionality. And I just don't think they would activate that mode even if they could.
 
Paul S. said:
On the face of it, 5K at 24fps seemed possible from Scarlet Classic, but no amount of praying would have got us that because it's one of the key differentiators between Epic and Scarlet. Likewise I'd be amazed if they chose to narrow the line even further when talking about Epic Dragon vs Scarlet Dragon.
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The prices are MUCH closer now -- $24k for Epic-D or ~$17k (~8k + $9.5k) for Scarlet-D (compared to $10k vs $35k of SX vs EX launch)... It really should have 6k/25p in my opinion. B-cam and all that. Plus framerate was always more of a differentiating factor (and harder on processing) than resolution with respect to Epic-X vs Scarlet-X.

Speaking of resolution, I'd still love to see Scarlet-X to get 4.5k/25p... I think maybe the R1's evolution set the bar too high (it's hard trying to force the genie back in the bottle).
 
Peter Proniewicz-Brooks said:
Not sure RED are sure yet.
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Yeah! haha

I would hate to have to make the decision tomorrow morning, I would at least like 12 hours to compare the specs of the EPiS-X to the specs of the Scarlet Dragon before deciding which path to take. Also, I am curious what the turnb-around time is for both of the upgrade paths. This is killing me!

C
 
Paul S. said:
No, it maxed at 30fps, and that's at full height. So there was good reason to think there was a bit more under the hood than 12fps at 5K - that extra 6fps headroom may have allowed 24fps 5K mode for at least 2:1 or wider.

Besides which Phil Holland's NAB journal suggests Jarred was quite clear there won't be 6K functionality. And I just don't think they would activate that mode even if they could.
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My mistake, I only ever shoot 24 (and typically 4KHD at that).

I definitely understand the differentiation argument. I just also seem to remember it being made very clear that RED's policy was not to artificially hamstring camera capabilities when people had the same complaints about 5K 12fps on the Scarlet. I feel like the leap from 30 @ 4K to 24 @ 5K is a closer shave than 60 @ 5K to 24 @ 6K, but I haven't done that math. And you're right, Phil did make it sound fairly set in stone. Who knows, we'll find out tomorrow I guess.
 
How much of a difference would it make for you guys if the Scarlet Dragon was not upgradeable to Epic Dragon and would that affect your decision? Thats the only reason why I think I'm going to lean towards Epic. Plus I keep going and watching the reels and films shot with Epic and my God... Those images are still so stunning.
 
John Brennick said:
How much of a difference would it make for you guys if the Scarlet Dragon was not upgradeable to Epic Dragon and would that affect your decision? Thats the only reason why I think I'm going to lean towards Epic. Plus I keep going and watching the reels and films shot with Epic and my God... Those images are still so stunning.
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That is confirmed to be the case. If you want to go all the way you have to start via option 1. Option 2 locks you in to Scarlet-D.
 
Mike P. said:
The prices are MUCH closer now -- $24k for Epic-D or ~$17k (~8k + $9.5k) for Scarlet-D (compared to $10k vs $35k of SX vs EX launch)...
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You're right, I didn't realize that. I think what will decide me is the frame rate at 4k.
 
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Chad Bonanno said:
Yeah! haha

I would hate to have to make the decision tomorrow morning, I would at least like 12 hours to compare the specs of the EPiS-X to the specs of the Scarlet Dragon before deciding which path to take. Also, I am curious what the turnb-around time is for both of the upgrade paths. This is killing me!

C
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Jarred did say they they weren't sure on the final specs earlier this week. Don't think scarlet upgrades are due to start for a while anyway, suspect the dragon routes more important to be in the queue early so could pull the trigger on that then switch later?
 
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