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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Scarlet Upgrade Program

Dave_S said:
Electronic loose value over time but Red customers should not( according to Red philosophy) If scarlet Dragon x cannot be upgraded to Epic Dragon x then????
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red would go under if you would never loose any value with their products...you always loose some...red is trying and succeeding in minimizing that loss....and you can upgrade a scarlet to dragon epic....you just can't upgrade a scarlet dragon to epic dragon....you have the choice now to go either way...as a scarlet owner (who is waiting for his/my epic right now) think that is very fair...
 
paul schefz said:
red would go under if you would never loose any value with their products...you always loose some...red is trying and succeeding in minimizing that loss....and you can upgrade a scarlet to dragon epic....you just can't upgrade a scarlet dragon to epic dragon....you have the choice now to go either way...as a scarlet owner (who is waiting for his/my epic right now) think that is very fair...
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100% agreed, Paul! Now let's stop with the ridiculous expectations, people!
 
Paul, if, would be Scarlet dragon x owners can't upgrade to Epic dragon x then where is the choice?
 
Dave_S said:
Paul, if, would be Scarlet dragon x owners can't upgrade to Epic dragon x then where is the choice?
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There are no scarlet dragon owners....and the ones who will go that route know that there will be no upgrade from that.....so the choice is clear.....you make our choice now with future upgrades in mind.....
and btw: originally there wasn't even a plan to upgrade scarlet at all....so it is a surprise that there even is that option....
not sure what the issue is: 9500 buys epic, 19000 buys epic dragon, 9500 buys scarlet dragon....none of the dragons are shipping....and probably won't for a couple of months....
 
Dave_S said:
Paul, if, would be Scarlet dragon x owners can't upgrade to Epic dragon x then where is the choice?
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Dave, this has been talked about until we are all blue in the face. The CHOICES have been laid out clearly. Two paths. 1: you choose the Scarlet path. It ends at Scarlet Dragon. 2: you choose the EPIC path. It allows you to travel to EPIC Dragon and beyond.

If you don't like those choices, you're free to move on and buy a Sony or Arri camera. I'm sure they'll take great care of you when you want to upgrade the sensor in your camera. *snicker*
 
Brian Merlen said:
Really? Can you send me a link please? Or quote? I am not sure how I missed that part of the upgrade deal lol...

I think I will go for Epic MX instead then, and just hope I can upgrade to Dragon before the deal runs out...
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I am not sure how you have missed that as well. The link to the above FAQ is very much part of the description of the Scarlet Dragon upgrade in the store...

:sifone: Peter
 
Brian Merlen said:
Really? Can you send me a link please? Or quote? I am not sure how I missed that part of the upgrade deal lol...

I think I will go for Epic MX instead then, and just hope I can upgrade to Dragon before the deal runs out...
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Why do you think so many of us are upgrading to EPIC Mysterium-X? This isn't hard to figure out, man...
 
What you have missed thou is that the sensor upgrade was never a part of the obsolescence obsolete.
The concept always revolved about the BRAINS and the ability to have different DSMC brains, while everything else was interchangeable.
The fact that RED offered sensor upgrade within a brain is a huge plus that was never promised in the first place.
There seems to this recurrence of people not only taking up for granted such unprecedented moves by RED, but in some instances actually demanding it (as you can see earlier in this thread).

Dragon is still yet to hit the floor running so to speak and talking about something beyond the Dragon is not only futile IMHO, but also completely pointless. Especially given the deadly (in the best sense of the word) combination of Jim's motto "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." and his obsession with pushing the status quo ever further beyond even the wildest dreams of his competitors...

People here really need to get their feet back on the ground (not saying you can't keep your head in the clouds and beyond) and get a reality check...

:sifone: Peter
 
LOL - can you show me anywhere that I have claimed EOL for Scarlet? EOL by definition can not be claimed on a product that is about to be upgraded. So if you want to continue your hypothetical talk about "beyond Dragon" - have fun...

:sifone: Peter
 
Keep telling yourself that the light at the end of the tunnel is the exit...
Due to several factors such as the mass of air rushing towards us, the light getting bigger much faster then we are walking, the constantly increasing noise and the fact that there was a writing at the entrance warning that this it is an exit point for a Shinkansen line - it is my personal understanding that light to actually be an incoming Shinkansen and I am out of here. I will make sure to send flowers with some FUD...

:sifone: Peter

EDIT: I guess you saw the "PU" part and deleted your post...
 
There has been nothing said about Scarlet being EOL. RED is giving the option of trading in Scarlet toward EPIC or upgrading Scarlet to the Dragon sensor. I think it would be foolish to assume that Scarlet would be EOL after this. It's the same form factor and internal frame as the EPIC, there is nothing to say that future upgrades couldn't be feasible or explored. I think either direction allowed for a Scarlet owner, as in the trade-in to EPIC or the sensor upgrade are great options in their own ways. Seems like a win/win situation for Scarlet owners and if I owned one, I would probably be faced with a difficult decision. RED is still building and selling Scarlet cameras, no EOL from where I'm sitting...

It is true that once you "execute" your Scarlet for the Epic upgrade, it's jus traded in and gone. It does not become "executed" until that actually happens. If you elect to do the Dragon sensor upgrade, that "executes" it as well for any current upgrade programs or incentives. Who knows what my come down the pipe in the future. They're not going to let you upgrade to the Dragon sensor, use it for a bit, then trade it in on EPIC, as far as I understand. You get one or the other.

Some of this is still academic or entirely speculative. Because of the lack of official statements and info from RED. We know what the two current options are for Scarlet owners. Actually three options. 1> Trade in for Epic, available now. 2> Upgrade to Dragon sensor, purchase now and wait. 3> Just keep it as is and see what happens in the future. Option 3 seems risky to me, we don't know how long they may offer the first two options. Probably for a while, but I'm sure they won't last forever... IMO, if choice #3 sounds good to you, then you probably don't use your camera enough and it may be wiser to sell it and move on to other things besides camera ownership. But who am I to judge... ;)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
If you elect to do the Dragon sensor upgrade, that "executes" it as well for any current upgrade programs or incentives. Who knows what my come down the pipe in the future...
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Jeff, not just "current". This is from the FAQ:

"...once you complete your SCARLET trade in order, your SCARLET will be marked as “EXECUTED” and will remain executed even if you cancel your SCARLET trade in order. Executed serial numbers cannot be used on any future trade ins or credits."

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Jeff, not just "current". This is from the FAQ:

"...once you complete your SCARLET trade in order, your SCARLET will be marked as “EXECUTED” and will remain executed even if you cancel your SCARLET trade in order. Executed serial numbers cannot be used on any future trade ins or credits."
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You read too much between the lines. ;) The point is, your (current) Scarlet will be "EXECUTED", but you get a upgraded (say "new") Scarlet, probably with a new serial number, or EPIC back.

I'm sure even Jim and Jarred don't really know how the next step will look, especially when it comes to trade-in/upgrade-programs. Ted said in a video that the Scarlet-program has been finalized 4 days before NAB (if i remember correctly), that should give you a clue. ;)

I'm also sure that Dragon-Scarlet-owners will not left behind, if there is a way for a upgrade that makes sense, even if Scarlet dies. We might see a way to upgrade from Scarlet-D to EPIC-D then (but really, don't ask for it now, it just doesn't make much sense for a company to offer this).

RED has proven multiple times that they try to make everything possible, even the impossible like a Dragon Scarlet, which will not be the end of the route for Scarlet-owners.

Have faith and lets wait for Dragon... Talking about EOL for Scarlet is way ahead of its time and a bit ridiculous.
 
Maik, you do get a brand new Epic with new serial when you chose that path, but with Scarlet Dragon you get your Scarlet back with the same "executed" serial. This is clearly explained in the FAQ. Along with the info I have highlighted earlier...

Sure, things may change in the future - it is after all the main motto of RED (that I have highlighted before as well), but making any business decisions based on such a expectations is not that smart IMHO...

What I find quite entertaining is how some peeps here take such an unprecedented steps taken by RED as a given and some even demand it as if it was their birth right...

What I am advocating is to make your decisions based on what is know as a fact now, or what can be deducted with logic and reason from the ever-decreasing posts by RED. Hope for the best, but plan for (and make business decisions based on) worst. So my advice is very simple:

Asume the Scarlet Dragon is the "end of line" (not life) for Scarlet.
Analyze the published specs.
And if you still think this upgrade path is worth it - go for it!
If you don't think so - go for the Epic path.
Plain and simple.

I personally went for the Scarlet Dragon, even after I have assumed that might be the end for Scarlet (or perhaps actually because of it!).
Scarlet Dragon has the specs of a camera that will not only provide future-proofing for the newest 4K UHD and DCI standards, but more importantly it will push any cinematographer to his/hers creative limits for many years to come...

:sifone: Peter
 
+++1

Peter Majtan said:
Maik, you do get a brand new Epic with new serial when you chose that path, but with Scarlet Dragon you get your Scarlet back with the same "executed" serial. This is clearly explained in the FAQ. Along with the info I have highlighted earlier...

Sure, things may change in the future - it is after all the main motto of RED (that I have highlighted before as well), but making any business decisions based on such a expectations is not that smart IMHO...

What I find quite entertaining is how some peeps here take such an unprecedented steps taken by RED as a given and some even demand it as if it was their birth right...

What I am advocating is to make your decisions based on what is know as a fact now, or what can be deducted with logic and reason from the ever-decreasing posts by RED. Hope for the best, but plan for (and make business decisions based on) worst. So my advice is very simple:

Asume the Scarlet Dragon is the "end of line" (not life) for Scarlet.
Analyze the published specs.
And if you still think this upgrade path is worth it - go for it!
If you don't think so - go for the Epic path.
Plain and simple.

I personally went for the Scarlet Dragon, even after I have assumed that might be the end for Scarlet (or perhaps actually because of it!).
Scarlet Dragon has the specs of a camera that will not only provide future-proofing for the newest 4K UHD and DCI standards, but more importantly it will push any cinematographer to his/hers creative limits for many years to come...

:sifone: Peter
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