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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Proxy Module

If they can give us a simple way to batch proxify slow motion footage then it might be worth ditching the Hyperdeck Shuttle. At 6x the cost though, I'm not so sure.

I still don't get the need for cabling. I thought the gold pins at the back of the brain were to send info to different modules. If the footage is already processed for the HDSDI and HDMI ports why can't that be put down the gold pin pipeline?

David
 
Jarred Land said:
I know, I know. But it is just dumb. I can understand delivering 1080p today as thats what clients may ask for. Today. But the tomorrow that we have been preaching for ever is really happening... and you guys hafta be at least prepared for 4K re-delivery.

Did everyone see this? http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/07/sony-4k-tv-pricing/

The consumers are gonna start knocking on all your doors for 4K content pretty damn quick.....
Click to expand...

I totally agree that 4k is what we should aim for, so how about a RED 4k prores proxy recorder? Then use RAW for the grade.
 
Wow around $4000 just to get prores out of the camera. New module, new cards, new reader. AND still wont record off speed AND it uses your only HDSDI output. I get RED want us all to shoot raw all the time, but thats just not the world we live in. No thanks. I think ill put my money into a convergent-design Odyssey and have a spanking new OLED monitor and recorder for the camera for half the price.
 
Mark Pugh said:
That would require a 4k feed...
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. And RED strikes me as the only company capable of sorting that out. Unless ProRES is to follow in FCPs 'Obsolescence Complete' mantra once we all go 4k full time.
 
Nino Tamburri said:
Wow a nearly $5000 exercise to get prores out of the camera. New module, new cards, new reader. AND still wont record off speed AND it uses your only HDSDI output. I get RED want us all to shoot raw all the time, but thats just not the world we live in. No thanks. I think ill put my money into a convergent-design Odyssey and have a spanking new OLED monitor and recorder for the camera all in one package under $2k.
Click to expand...

exaclty, i don't understand why red even made this. The quite know what people where asking for, and they also know this module doesn't do more than all the avaliable options that are around already for a long time. The only 2 reason for red to bring out a own proxy module are:

- recording slowmo in a different codec than redcode at the same time
- possibilty to record in log in prores, in raw on the ssd, and view in rc3

and both these things it doesn't do... i really am confused, this had could have been such a winner module everybody would buy if it was like toia described it, could have been double the size of his module, but that was the functionality people are looking for!
 
Does the HD-sdi cable of the proxy module interfere with the rear power input of the brain??
 
Any word on the interface for this module?
How do we play back a clip?
User-assigned buttons?
Is there any way at all to record varispeed via playback of the r3d?
 
Jarred how about a simple, easy feature for Redcine-X...
One-button searching for all R3ds in a given directory folder and sub-folders (eg today's shots) that are varispeed, and placing them automatically in a bin for export.
That way Redcine could quickly mop up the job that the proxy module can't handle.
5 second's labor, job done.
 
Why the f$$$ does the HD-SDI IN cable need to go all the way across the camera, screwing all the other ports? What not connect on the left?

Mikael Lubtchansky said:
from the RED store, confirms +1 and proxy can be used together....

ProxyAttached.png
Click to expand...
 
exciting module...

ha, but wait, we're not not in 2010?! is it true? is it 2013, oh sorry, for a moment I thought I was younger.
 
David Litchfield said:
If they can give us a simple way to batch proxify slow motion footage then it might be worth ditching the Hyperdeck Shuttle. At 6x the cost though, I'm not so sure.

I still don't get the need for cabling. I thought the gold pins at the back of the brain were to send info to different modules. If the footage is already processed for the HDSDI and HDMI ports why can't that be put down the gold pin pipeline?

David
Click to expand...

I think there may be the assumption that everything is in those pins after processing.... from a few recent modules (this proxy module, the Meizler, and the +1 module) I think it's more likely that the pins are the data bus that the rest of the architecture, including the sensor, ASICs, and conversion electronics ride on.

Thus the raw sensor data is there, but it's the ASIC's/conversion circuitry that generate feeds for HDMI, SDI, audio, etc...

If a module wants to provide an additional output or data format, it has to grab the data off the bus, debayer or decode it(depending on if it wants pre- or post-compression), and then generate it's own output, or re-encode to something like ProRes.

That's likely on of the costs contributing to the Meizler being more expensive, and having it's own fan to cool it. And why things like the +1 module or this proxy recorder are cheaper, and don't have as much active electronics in them.

-sc
 
Steven Caesare said:
I think there may be the assumption that everything is in those pins after processing.... from a few recent modules (this proxy module, the Meizler, and the +1 module) I think it's more likely that the pins are the data bus that the rest of the architecture, including the sensor, ASICs, and conversion electronics.

Thus the raw sensor data is there, but it's the ASIC's/conversion circuitry that generate feeds for HDMI, SDI, audio, etc...

If a module want's to provide an additional output or data format, it has to grab the data off the bus, debayer or decode it(depending on if it wants pre- or post-compression), and then generate it's own output, or re-encode to something like ProRes.

That's likely on of the costs contributing to the Meizler being more expensive, and having it's own fan to cool it. And why things like the +1 module or this proxy recorder are cheaper, and don't have as much active electronics in them.

-sc
Click to expand...

Then how do you explain the Pro I/O module?
 
It does similar to the Meizler... it grabs the digital data and generates the formats necessary for the outputs it needs. You'll notice it has a cooling grill in the top too.

-sc
 
You're likely right, Steven. That said, it seems like this proxy module was not well thought out.

As was always mentioned by Toia and others, this proposed module's ability to record off-speed material with correct timecode to match the raw footage would make it a true proxy device. Pulling the HD-SDI feed to do so, the inability to record a different gamma or colorspace from what you're monitoring, the requirement of cabling which can lead to (possibly undetectable) errors in the recording...these all make for a sub-par product.

I understand wanting to discourage people from using the proxy module to get realtime deliverables, but I for one would rather give the end user the option to do so, trusting that they should know the true benefits of going back to the raw, as opposed to just closing the door on it and handing a gigantic market segment to Alexa, Canon and whoever else will give the people what they're asking for. Maybe it was that they figured the cost of making a proper proxy module was just too high for most users (+$5k?), or maybe it was the size that would be required that ultimately led to this "stripped down" implementation. I know it must be frustrating for the hardworking people at Red to hear these kinds of criticisms when they're trying to please us with an integrated feature set, but I can't help but feel that whoever gave the go-ahead on this design had settled for something that may have been too easily deemed "good enough." Maybe that's naive of me to think...it could have been a calculated business move to protect Meizler/Rocket/Redcode. Whatever the reason, I would rather have a product that was okayed by the same people who continually want to push their sensor tech until it delivers beyond expectation...even if it means that product doesn't actually ship for another 6-12-18 months. Yes, there is the meizler, but let's be honest, it is an awesome piece of hardware with a ton of functionality built-in, and some of us just don't need all of that functionality. And the Rocket isn't always practical or economical. So while I'm glad that they wanted to provide users with a highly requested module (probably #1 on the vast majority of users' lists), this sadly falls short of expectation and does nothing to bring Epic closer to winning back all those jobs that went to other cameras because of workflow. I've longed for the day to sell the PIX240 and have an integrated proxy module, which combined with Dragon would put the Epic back on top...but for now I guess we'll just have to see if the Dragon sensor is enough to do that on it's own. From a DP's perspective, it will likely be a great leap forward, but for all the blowback we'll invariably get from post houses / producers / etc, it will remain a difficult sell.

My nickel's worth...

Clint

P.S. Sorry, Steven, if you felt this was directed at you...definitely not my intention. I guess I'm growing weary of constantly making excuses and trying to sell people on this wonderful camera. I know the many benefits of shooting Redcode Raw in a tiny form factor, but my reasons don't always align with those making the final decisions. 4k/UHD is the future, clearly...Red was spot-on with that. But here and now, people still want to simplify their workflow and walk away with footage as opposed to paying someone to keep up with transcodes, rocket rental, OT, etc.

P.S.S. I'd also like to reiterate that I've been a longtime supporter/proponent of Red as a company, as a belief, and I still think the people behind this company have done the unthinkable in revolutionizing the camera and film industry. I just think this particular decision was short-sighted (or too damn future-aware).

Steven Caesare said:
It does similar to the Meizler... it grabs the digital data and generates the formats necessary for the outputs it needs. You'll notice it has a cooling grill in the top too.

-sc
Click to expand...
 
Mark Pugh said:
Why the f$$$ does the HD-SDI IN cable need to go all the way across the camera, screwing all the other ports? What not connect on the left?
Click to expand...

Hdsdi cables can swivel in all directions. You'd probably have it arc further backward than is shown in this picture. Yes, a bit busy down there, but it looks like it won't be hard to have all your cables work in there.
 
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