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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- Dragon Sensor Upgrade Program begins

Andrew Young said:
Based on Red's Dragon Specs, there are 6144 pixels across and a physical width of 30.7mm, which equals 200.13 pixels per mm. Super 16 has a width of 12.52mm, so if I'm doing this right, a Super 16 crop of Dragon should have a width of 2505, which unlike 2K, should resolve to full HD or even 2K, and should be capable of somewhere between 200 and 300 fps. IF Red gives us a 2.5K option. This has been discussed for years and Jarred has even said they are thinking about it, but it has never happened. Having this option is even more relevant now with Dragon.

Jarred, please weigh in on whether of not these numbers are accurate and whether or not a 2.5K option can/will be implemented in the near future. For many of us who do verité, wildlife, and high speed work, having the option to use S16 glass and also get the maximum frame rate that will resolve to HD are huge needs and would add great value to the cost of a Dragon upgrade.

My Sony FS700 does 240fps with HD res. Why not my Epic. :)
Click to expand...

I agree with Andrew 100%. This would be incredibly helpful to have and would really bring MORE flexibility for many of us out in the field who still use their incredible S16 Zooms for multi genres. It's another arrow for the quiver... In addition, the new Phantom 4K Flex has a S16/2K mode... Very excited over the creative possibilities!

Since RED listens, I am going to go ahead and dust this off... I trust that this is coming!
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Hi Jarred Land ,
I would like to ask you a question:
I bought a RED EPIC less than one month before the release of the EPIC DRAGON. When I will have the right to make the upgrade and if in this case being a very recent purchase if I will have some discount on upgrade?
I would like to mention the excellent service I had with Nick Watkins
RED Bomb Squad I am very happy with my choice of purchasing a EPIC.
 
Jason Goodman said:
Here's one thing I don't understand. Why is it $9,500 for an EPIC upgrade and also only $9,500 for a Scarlet upgrade? Am I missing something? Does a Scarlet Dragon not do the same stuff as EPIC Dragon? It seems like a dramatically better deal for Scarlet owners.
Click to expand...
For many practical purposes, the Scarlet and the Epic are the same except in one major area.... frame rates. The pre-Dragon Scarlet can only do 5K at 12FPS whereas the pre-Dragon Epic can do 120FPS. The new Dragon Scarlet can NOW do 5K at 60FPS, and no word yet (AFAIK) on whether it can actually do 6K. The Dragon Epic can do 6K at 100FPS. So if you NEVER need frame rates higher than 60FPS, then the Dragon Scarlet is the new kid on the block to have. I own and rent an Epic (#0152) and will upgrade to Dragon when I can afford it or when a renter demands it... but for 95% of the work I do personally, the Dragon Scarlet would be sufficient. Which essentially means I will rent at Dragon Scarlet rates, because 95% of my renters don't think they need 6K or higher frame rates than 60FPS. But I will say it again, just for the record: I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate Red providing upgrade paths. It is one MAJOR reason I chose to invest in Red equipment.
 
anibalfontoura said:
Hi Jarred Land ,
I would like to ask you a question:
I bought a RED EPIC less than one month before the release of the EPIC DRAGON. When I will have the right to make the upgrade and if in this case being a very recent purchase if I will have some discount on upgrade?
I would like to mention the excellent service I had with Nick Watkins
RED Bomb Squad I am very happy with my choice of purchasing a EPIC.
Click to expand...

sure.. purchase an Epic-X or M in the last 30 days you get the early adopter price and same priority. Hows that?
 
anibalfontoura said:
When I will have the right to make the upgrade
Click to expand...
You SHOULD be able to upgrade right now with the rest of us who are not early adopters (of the Red One) or Epic-M owners. Have you tried? Jarred or your Bomb Squad rep should be able to answer whether you deserve any other discount but I wouldn't count on it... not because Red is stingy... far from it... but because if they go back one month, then someone who bought it two months ago will want a discount too... If you bought it a month ago with NAB on the near horizon, that was a risk you took based (hopefully) on the fact that you needed it then.

EDIT: Look, Jarred said "yes." I guess it never hurts to ask. Good job Red.
 
LUVE YOU GUYS

LUVE YOU GUYS

I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate Red providing upgrade paths. It is one MAJOR reason I chose to invest in Red equipment.
Click to expand...

+1

Luve you guys at RED..it has been a super 4 years with you all....enjoy your party tonite after NAB wraps up.

Harcharan
 
No party, we have to pack up and be at work tomorrow AM. : )
Click to expand...

Thats why we all luv you guys....

Harcharan
 
anibalfontoura said:
What that means ?....What do I have to do ?
Click to expand...
Keep watching here at least. Brent is saying he will make it possible for you to get your discount on the Red store and he will post a note here (I assume) when the website is ready for your order to be placed. If I were you, I'd start the conversation with your Bomb Squad rep and show him Jarred and Brent's posts.
 
@RED,

[Don't think this has been answered yet - and so apologies if i've missed this in the thread somewhere]

Do you anticipate that the Dragon upgrade will be 'performable' by Red Europe (eg UK)?

If so -> I would like to get in the Euro line (when this service becomes available).
If not -> I will 'get in line' to send to the States.

Thanks,
AJ
 
steve duncan said:
problem is that production budgets have gone way down. and with the lower budgets, nobody is willing to pay high day rates for the REDs. Adorama in NYC is offering the 5DM3 for $65 a day. The only camera consistently getting the $500 plus day rates is the Alexa. And a new 10K sensor isn't going to change that... the only way to afford to stay with RED, with heavy 4K competition looming everywhere, is if RED makes it affordable for us to stay. If not, we're going to get chewed up by all these lower costs 4k cameras. And when clients ask what's the difference between a Black magic 4k camera at 1k a wk, as opposed to 3k a wk for a dragon Epic-- good luck explaining what stops are, and how 4K isn't really the same with all cameras.
Click to expand...

Steve,

I'm in Market 46.
Lancaster, Pennsylvania
An owner/operator who does regional spot TV, high-end corporate, and a little broadcast.
I made my little local/regional mark by being a film guy.
Owned a souped-up SRII S16. Rented 35mm maybe 6 - 8 times year.

I was an early adopter on Red One. 17K buy in in late '07 early '08
Red allowed me to use my PL lenses and many of the other accessories from my film world.
I sold the SRII 3 weeks after getting my Red One.
Since taking delivery of Red One I haven't rented a 35mm camera package.

That alone allowed me to survive 2009/2010.
No film and processing and transfer
No 35mm camera rental since early 2008

I think it added up to something like $125,000 of retained revenue for me in 2008
$125k for a 17k investment in the body and maybe 40k in accessories.
And that was the first year.

Back then, 4K was shiny and new.
It helped me get some work and build my client base

I skipped the MX upgrade to Red One.
Didn't need it.

Opted in for Stage Three Epic X for $10,500 at the last moment -- about 14 months ago


So I'm in for $27,500.
$27,500 and I've been booking it for 5+ years.
5+ years of being able to shoot high-end 35mm with zero out-of-pocket.
None of my customers ask why I am not shooting on Alexa or Sony.

I rent the camera to my own productions. Never as a rental.
It's impact on my budgets average $1200/day
More for my PL Primes. (8,10,18,25,35,50,85,100, 105macro, 300)

It works often
And no one questions my rate.
They may question my overall budget, but I rarely cut from my camera rate. Those cuts come from out-of-pocket

Will I upgrade to Dragon?
Probably. But it's not necessary.. The Epic X is more than suitable for my customer's needs.
But I try to keep current.
And Red has once again given me the pathway.
Yeah ... another $8500.. Cost of being in the game
Cost of keeping my customer's look fresh.

I'll likely upgrade just before my early adopter window closes.
Haven't figured that out quite yet, but I'll talk to my bomb squad rep soon.

I get where you are.
I follow your math.
But it tells me you aren't in a market or have a model in which owning Red makes sense.
No problem. There are tons of options out there.
Find the one that works for you and go kick some ass.
But please don't think your experience is everybody's experience.

I'm no Red fanboy. But as a Director/DP who has migrated from the film world -- Red has changed the game and literally allowed me to thrive in a small market doing the stuff I love.

max zug
www.tcmotion.net






It allowed
 
Brent, Jarred can you clarify for me:

Is the M / early adopter preorder queue separate from the X preorder queue in terms of priority, (ie all on that list complete first?)

...or was it just a few days of head start on getting in line? Sorry if this has been covered but sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees :)
 
Andy Roberts said:
Keep watching here at least. Brent is saying he will make it possible for you to get your discount on the Red store and he will post a note here (I assume) when the website is ready for your order to be placed. If I were you, I'd start the conversation with your Bomb Squad rep and show him Jarred and Brent's posts.
Click to expand...

Once live in RED.com, will be automatic, no need to tell BS reps - they have now seen Jarred's post : )

Note, the early adoptor upgrade price of $8500 is a credit off the $9500 normal fee at invoicing. For those of you who have been around awhile, same thing we did for Stage 2 M-X sensor upgrade folks...
 
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