NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Alex.Mitchell]

I got a Monstro, We use the "flip screen" on quite large production to make the talent see her/him self when acting. Works great when for example doing precision moves of hands etc infront of screen. So no thats not only a Vblogger kind of feature.

Totes. And I’m not saying it can’t be done with an external screen either; it’s just a little hard to hand hold a 4KPCC with a monitor on top while you’re riding your motorized long-board through downtown New York.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I got a Monstro, We use the "flip screen" on quite large production to make the talent see her/him self when acting. Works great when for example doing precision moves of hands etc infront of screen. So no thats not only a Vblogger kind of feature.

If I'm not mistaken, Flip screen on your monster requires a cable and offset - if you wanted that on the "pocket" you would simply hook up one of dozens of available small monitors.


Flip screen would be nice but it involves major tradeoffs in terms of taking up space (not so much the screen but the fact that you have to have another wall behind the screen) as well as reduced reliability. BMD has managed to jam full raw recording, a mini-XLR with phantom power, USB-C recording etc. in this compact package.

I do find the complaints about 45-60 minute battery a bit goofy. I don't know the boot time, but I'm pretty sure it is a lot less than a RED. So popping out and in a tiny battery (I can fit 4 or five in my pocket) isn't much of a problem. Anyone using in its minimal configuration is very unlikely to have any issue with it. Someone using it on a higher level production will probably be using it with some kind of rig where external power shouldn't be a problem either.

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

Flip screen would be nice but it involves major tradeoffs in terms of taking up space (not so much the screen but the fact that you have to have another wall behind the screen) as well as reduced reliability. BMD has managed to jam full raw recording, a mini-XLR with phantom power, USB-C recording etc. in this compact package.

I don’t think anyone is saying that BMD didn’t make solid trade offs to design the best camera they could; I just think folks are wondering how you can position a camera without a hinged screen as a good camera to shoot yourself with. Just seems like a weird marketing message is all.

I also recognize that you CAN totally make it work still, but it’s harder to get specific framing that way.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

I get it; some features (flip screen, solid auto focus, etc.) lend themselves less to cinema and more to vlog/lifestyle production, but telling people they shouldn’t use a “Cinema Camera” for vlogging just comes off as pretentious in 2018. Why is everyone trying to draw dotted lines around what gear is and isn’t acceptable to use? Yeesh. Leave the judgement at the door. .

That's no judgement, and not pretentious at all.

Saying: If you are a vlogger, and you think an extra screen is too much/complicated/expensive, than this camera is not for you, is like saying if you are pulling tree stumps out of your garden, than a Ferrari is not for you. It's just horses for courses.

However, calling people out because you work in a segment of the industry where you’re swapping V-Mounts every 45-min isn’t a great look. For starters, why aren’t you running off a block battery or higher capacity V-Mount if you’re swapping that much?

Cause I couldn't care less. Swapping a battery takes me a few seconds, it's a total no-brainer for me.

I also can’t really imagine a doc crew putting up with that either, especially in remote locations. Not like the 4KPCC is gonna be used as an A-Cam for big series or Planet Earth 3; just saying that I don’t know where you’re working that 45 min between swaps is somehow de rigueur.

Seriously? It's the norm here.
I did a ton of high glossy docu productions in remote locations, and especially the RED and Alexa cameras needed frequent swapping - but even than my AC never got "tired", cause it's actually not a big deal - lighting his cigarette takes him longer.

..maybe people need longer run times because their shooting style or shooting schedule that day necessitates it. Maybe they’re on a small crew and having to run batteries every 45 min really disrupts the flow of the day. .

Okay, I'm behind the camera since over 28 years now. In all these years, I shot everything from feature, to commercials, to all sorts of docu, to news/ENG andwhatnot. But even in a war-zone, I never felt that a few seconds of battery change, interrupting my shooting schedule, disrupting my "flow of the day" (whatever that may be), or even missed a singe shot.

 

[Misha Engel]

It is dual powered, LP-E6 Battery and/or any other 12 VDC source (car battery,...).

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

Saying: If you are a vlogger, and you think an extra screen is too much/complicated/expensive, than this camera is not for you, is like saying if you are pulling tree stumps out of your garden, than a Ferrari is not for you. It's just horses for courses.

But see, here’s the thing; I agree with you, and so do a lot of people. The whole point is that there are features missing from this camera that make it less ideal for vlogging/lifestyle work and yet BMD has positioned it as a solution for that market. To reiterate, the argument isn’t that the 4KPCC needs a flip screen, but it should have one if BMD is saying that it is an ideal product for creators who, historically, have used them liberally. Surely you follow that train of logic, yes?

Okay, I'm behind the camera since over 28 years now. In all these years, I shot everything from feature, to commercials, to all sorts of docu, to news/ENG andwhatnot. But even in a war-zone, I never felt that a few seconds of battery change, interrupting my shooting schedule, disrupting my "flow of the day" (whatever that may be), or even missed a singe shot.

If you can honestly tell me that in 28 years in the industry, you have never, not once, not ever run across a scenario where a battery lasting even five minutes longer would have been helpful, then I’ll drop this. Three decades is a long time Frank, so I’m going to need you to really be honest with yourself here. Again, you have never in that time ever needed a battery to last longer than 45 min.

 

[D Fuller]

But see, here’s the thing; I agree with you, and so do a lot of people. The whole point is that there are features missing from this camera that make it less ideal for vlogging/lifestyle work and yet BMD has positioned it as a solution for that market. To reiterate, the argument isn’t that the 4KPCC needs a flip screen, but it should have one if BMD is saying that it is an ideal product for creators who, historically, have used them liberally. Surely you follow that train of logic, yes?



If you can honestly tell me that in 28 years in the industry, you have never, not once, not ever run across a scenario where a battery lasting even five minutes longer would have been helpful, then I’ll drop this. Three decades is a long time Frank, so I’m going to need you to really be honest with yourself here. Again, you have never in that time ever needed a battery to last longer than 45 min.

Alex, you've obviously never shot film. If you had, changing batteries would never seem like an issue, because changing film mags every 10 minutes was just what it took to make a film. And that's for the longer reel. 45 minutes? That's lux.

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

Alex, you've obviously never shot film. If you had, changing batteries would never seem like an issue, because changing film mags every 10 minutes was just what it took to make a film. And that's for the longer reel. 45 minutes? That's lux.

I shot my fair share of 35mm and 16mm, thanks. Kind of different scenarios considering you can still work and look through the eyepiece with a film camera while the battery is being replaced. I also wouldn’t use an SR3 for the same things I’d use a 4KPCC for, so it’s kind of apples to oranges.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

If you can honestly tell me that in 28 years in the industry, you have never, not once, not ever run across a scenario where a battery lasting even five minutes longer would have been helpful, then I’ll drop this. Three decades is a long time Frank, so I’m going to need you to really be honest with yourself here. Again, you have never in that time ever needed a battery to last longer than 45 min.

No, cause I never run into a situation, where I would roll more than 45 minutes at a time (unless we do a whole concert, but than I'm on AC, not using batteries anyway)

Usually a take is much shorter than this, and in between takes you have to change media, move lights, move the camera, change the lens, move to an other location, wait for wardrobe, hair/makeup, or wait on godknowswhat.
So there is always a ton of time to have an eye on the battery, and change it before you run out of juice.
Actually I don't shoot till they are empty, I swap them, when they are down to 20% or so.
And yeah, color me old school, but that's how we learned it back than, and that's what I did all the years.

 

[Savannah Miller]

One thing I don't understand is why people still buy DSMC1/Red One MX cameras anymore. Is there any features/image quality benefits that one of those cameras has over something like Pocket 4K or Ursa Mini Pro has?

 

[Joe Cage]

One thing I don't understand is why people still buy DSMC1/Red One MX cameras anymore. Is there any features/image quality benefits that one of those cameras has over something like Pocket 4K or Ursa Mini Pro has?

haha yeah exactly. I guess just for the fact that they own a RED camera.
I will be getting one of these pockets as a B-Cam/travel cam.

 

[Billy Jim]

Touchscreen menus:

 

[jordan levy]

Touchscreen menus:

LUTs and Falso color options look great, the interface has always been great on blackmagic, they do that well!
what lens is on that camera i wonder?

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

LUTs and Falso color options look great, the interface has always been great on blackmagic, they do that well!
what lens is on that camera i wonder?

Looks like the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8.

 

[jordan levy]

Looks like the Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8.

oh you are right, i thought it was the olymus one from the bottom

 

[Savannah Miller]

After seeing all these small cameras, other than cooling, what makes other cinema cameras so large? If you look at the Kinefinity Terra and Mavo/LF models, they have the processing power for 5 and 6K prores which even the RED cameras struggle with. The Mavo LF with the Kineback W has dual XLR, and built-in wireless monitoring. If you look at specs and features, the power contained within a Kinefinity cam is quite impressive, so what makes other cameras that much larger?

The pocket 4K is quite small and handles 4K prores, internal 3D luts, etc. things that supposedly things that the Red Raven is not "powerful enough" to do, yet it's a tiny camera. Is it because RED's asics are dedicated to performing other functions?

 

[jordan levy]

After seeing all these small cameras, other than cooling, what makes other cinema cameras so large? If you look at the Kinefinity Terra and Mavo/LF models, they have the processing power for 5 and 6K prores which even the RED cameras struggle with. The Mavo LF with the Kineback W has dual XLR, and built-in wireless monitoring. If you look at specs and features, the power contained within a Kinefinity cam is quite impressive, so what makes other cameras that much larger?

The pocket 4K is quite small and handles 4K prores, internal 3D luts, etc. things that supposedly things that the Red Raven is not "powerful enough" to do, yet it's a tiny camera. Is it because RED's asics are dedicated to performing other functions?

i think the raven could handle luts and more but it's purposefully crippled. also it's 3 years old now.
they should really firmware update options to compete, have desqueeze for at least 1.3x, and luts.
the main thing that bugs me is having to have such big batteries on such a small camera, there is no way to ever be truly portable. i wish it just took fat canon batteries like c300's...

 

[Chuck Greenwood]

Savannah! Hey I’m a big fan of your posts.
DSMC1? Oh fuck yes and here’s why.

The money.

When Jim built these he may have seen them working (years after EOL) in Africa and even remote BFE places like Cave Junction, Oregon. They are.


What’s even more relevant is a sMX brain sold here for 2500 bucks last week. That’s half of what one job costs.

Down here in the mosh pit of indie films and such it’s simply way easier to get work with a RED.

Specs don’t really get jobs for me personally I woke up one day and literally sold off all my BM gear that day and never looked back

Twas one of the best decisions I’ve ever made.

Light it like 320 film and the old MX eats the BM for lunch.

No?

 

[Savannah Miller]

Light it at 320 and sure it looks great, but I would say not eating it for lunch. You would hope that the Blackmagic camera with a 8 year newer sensor would outperform an older MX sensor and it does very much so in both color and dynamic range. Noise performance is interesting too as I feel like it has more shadow DR than the Alexa and in midtone/highlight range has significantly less noise too. Only in the deepest blacks is there maybe a touch more FPN if you lift the images up well beyond reason and the overall noise clumps more vertically, but the Blackmagic 4.6K pro holds its own against many modern cameras. With the modern RED cameras such as dragon, weapon, helium then there's more of a gap but if the Blackmagic with a 3rd party OLPF is a bargain camera and I see no reason to buy an older DSMC1 MX camera.

If the DR of this new pocket 4K is even remotely close to what they claim, this might actually surpass RED MX image quality too, and it certainly does in low light and 4K 60fps sharpness/compression.

I feel like cameras are just too good these days and people who make excuses about a camera not being "good enough" really comes down to other skills such as lighting, lenses, production design, etc. The RED one/epic MX is a legendary camera and was ahead of it's time but I feel like it's definitely a dated image now.

 

[John Brawley]

If I'm not mistaken, Flip screen on your monster requires a cable and offset - if you wanted that on the "pocket" you would simply hook up one of dozens of available small monitors.


Flip screen would be nice but it involves major tradeoffs in terms of taking up space (not so much the screen but the fact that you have to have another wall behind the screen) as well as reduced reliability. BMD has managed to jam full raw recording, a mini-XLR with phantom power, USB-C recording etc. in this compact package.

I do find the complaints about 45-60 minute battery a bit goofy. I don't know the boot time, but I'm pretty sure it is a lot less than a RED. So popping out and in a tiny battery (I can fit 4 or five in my pocket) isn't much of a problem. Anyone using in its minimal configuration is very unlikely to have any issue with it. Someone using it on a higher level production will probably be using it with some kind of rig where external power shouldn't be a problem either.

Boot time is about 4 seconds for most BMD cameras from turn on to ready to record.

Alex I know your experience is different but on an Alexa
Mini series recently we were getting about 30-40 mins out of our on board batteries. Once you add in on board monitors, video transmitters, cinetapes etc that’s a pretty normal battery changeover time. Of course we also hot swap them as well so you don’t notice the change as much.

JB