NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[C. Burkhart]

One thing about the form factor.
It's not going to be replacing the GH5 anytime soon as a walk around camera.
Example, I own and still love my 5D Mark III, which does great video with ML as well as outstanding stills.
But I don't carry it around for everyday stuff. For that I have a Fuji X100F and a Sony A7S.
The 5D is just simply too big, unless I am on a specific assignment.
This new BM camera feels the same.
Great for dedicated video, but not your hang around the neck, even at parties type thing.
In fact it's even a little bigger than the 5D.

So great for dedicated video work, but let's keep things in perspective. For the pocket it ain't.

 

[Savannah Miller]

I think it is a walk-around camera for someone who wants to future proof their images. What if you capture something you want to reuse later or just want the peace if mind that your images will be free of compression artifacts and if a higher quality? Storage is cheaper than ever these days and in the future when you look back on the stuff you shot, you're going to be laughing at the cost of storage and wish you shot that better codec. Raw maybe not so much but prores is worth it. For travel, vacations, etc. this is a good camera and I feel blackmagic made the perfect compromises with size,codecs and features.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I recognize that there is light makeup and a grade. However, what I am referring to is the greyness of the guys hand (supporting his head).

What is your reference ?

How do you know what his skin really looks like under that light ?

If their faces are pampered for the shoot, skin tonality discrepancy between the hands and faces is normal.

Also as you will notice the faces take on a kind of even orangey/brown tone, with little variation in the skin tones.

Typical case with plaster on the face.
It even rhymes.

I avoid shots with make-up for camera testing because you are not testing the camera alone but the make-up artist as well and all bets are off.

I think the 400 and 3200 mode (this shot is 3200) are extremely clean.

Compact cameras tend to have noise reduction implemented in the signal processing chain. Yes, even in raw.
So the higher the ISO rating, the softer the image.

I
On top of that I believe the shot was slightly overexposed and the noise further reduced.

It was not overexposed.

Just about right to keep the shadows, faces and signal peaks on the cart.

 

[John Brawley]

I wouldn't read too much into the images.

Normally BMD have done special builds for NAB to lock out the recording functions. I'm guessing they overlooked it.

When it's ready I'm sure there will be launch images.


JB

 

[C. Burkhart]

What is your reference ?

How do you know what his skin really looks like under that light ?

One thing I know is that skin doesn't look grey.

 

[Zeb B]

One thing I know is that skin doesn't look grey.

or does it . . .

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Wayne, the point is what you've just said. That's only a mere grade from a pre-production unit to not call it prototype. How can a photoshop grade from a grab tell so much about anything?! I don't even find anything wrong there... : ) You, the guy of innovation himself to approach in a conservative manner on a revolutionary product coming from your own land, that puzzles me, Aussie boy (frankly, long live to Aussies and your Italian surname tells too little now for this matter, of course : )) Without mention people struggle to get decent V-Log L skin tones from 10-bit. Let alone when RAW 12-bit pops up at that price range, to come here and read that from you, the Ambarella supporter number one. Don't forget that I am just one of your loyal readers for more than... how long today? I guess for a decade and a half or so, now! (E

Look. It's there. Forget protyoe for a moment, realise this is somebody's sensor. It displays the very thing I don't buy Red or 4.6k for. It is something that must be graded for, yet I see it in so many older films with older sensors here. Being high end productions they still didn't free it out completely. Look at imperfection long enough, and it starts to look normal. How can a grab not tell you anything? The green eyebrows though is curious, but I guess that is Bayer. The quad Bayer thing is something I'm concerned about, if this camera uses it.

Revolutionary? I don't consider any of it "revolutionary" do you know what that is, even most all the red camera stuff (the redray codec, that was more revolutionary, the hydrogen may well be). The world's most complex camera ASIC, that in itself is revolutionary, if a significant leap in complexcity, but any of this? It is only revolutionary as in the market price point and access (and that craft fell over before they did it). But somebody could do 3D 4K multipoint for a third the price, thinning margins and make it difficult to compete, that would be more revolutionary. We are talking about something that could have been done years ago with different parts, this is just an increment on that. There are people out there that just their butts for decades rewriting the paradigms you probably.hsbrnt even heard of. The foveon X3 (closer to home), Newton, Einstein, Tesla, the guys from quantum physics, Chuck Moore, some of the more famous ones, even the inventor of liquid paper directing fluid. Most living in ignominy changing life for the better, while fanboys give the glory to tje rich and powerful instead. I say both Grant and Jim have done good work, and produced good products, but revolutionary belongs to the generals of the thought who came up with the things others used to become rich and famous. We have whole generations growing up being taught being rich and famous now, but with an adversion to careers of coming up with practical.things that will help others. There are generals of money, their are generals of leadership, there are generals of thought coming up with the solutions, and their are generals of ring. They are all needed together to make things work better. But what is happening, is the top and bottom ends that follow them, are the bottlenecks to improvements, slowing things down 10x maybe 100x. If we had free supported patent applications and representation, we could not only get a better mouse trap, but skip over other better ones and 20 years in one year. All the best stuff could be quickly pushed forwards out into public view, for yet more things to be pushed out after seeing them, as now most 0e9plw would be able to afford to spot, not just the well off. That's revolutionary, that is great economical increase.

Ambarella, what have they got to do with it? Sure, they greatly increased codec quality and performance with their cutting edge technology, but they don't do high codecs as far as I know, and only have their place in consumer and broadcast. But they are revolutionary in that aspect I guess. If they only would open their chips up to clean quality hdmi or add/USB/TB recording uncompressed (or even with a pro codec) they could revolutionise things. Even $100 4k cameras you supply.tje $500 SSD and lens mount and lenses to replace the hobbit lens. A great feild camcorder and local ad maker, and for people to practice with. Don't get me wrong, it has its place, but it isn't suitable for everything.

Anyway Emanuel. I'm sorry, but I can't even remember who has been freindly or bad to me anymore (with a few outstanding exceptions). I talk to some people on pm, and wonder if they were ussually horrible or nice to me. I like helping people a bit, but don't want to waste my time promoting the wrong people. So my apologies if you have been one of the nice ones m. Santa's lost his list, not his marbles.

The future of the world, and our individual corners of it is very important. A very Asperger's thing to say. Thanks for your time.

 

[jordan levy]

One thing I know is that skin doesn't look grey.

i dont see anything different then what comes out of any camera in log, look at the youtube video of the person who was there shooting what was on the screen.
i have had alexa log footage that looked flatter and more grey then that at first look, the information will be there, it's all about what you do with it.
as jb and others have said, how much can we say off these single images, most of us are pretty blown away, looks a billion times better then any 5d or c300 footage i have seen.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I wouldn't read too much into the images.

Normally BMD have done special builds for NAB to lock out the recording functions. I'm guessing they overlooked it.

When it's ready I'm sure there will be launch images.


JB

I hope so. It would be great to have something that nails the coffin shut. HDR to push to 16 stops+ like how we see, should help with outside and event lighting. Saw some classic footage of a female shot putter under gym lights looking freaky in face tonality, and normal in outside shaded interview recently. Consumer camera makers use different profiles in different markets to suite rendering the skin tone of local people better in those markets. Very important to devote more to things like this in ProRes and sensor setup, that make a difference.

 

[C. Burkhart]

i dont see anything different then what comes out of any camera in log, look at the youtube video of the person who was there shooting what was on the screen.
i have had alexa log footage that looked flatter and more grey then that at first look, the information will be there, it's all about what you do with it.
as jb and others have said, how much can we say off these single images, most of us are pretty blown away, looks a billion times better then any 5d or c300 footage i have seen.

1) Hey, I said, I liked what I saw coming from the BM pocket camera. However, I was responding to greyness that still existed in a graded image, not a log one.
2) No it does not look a billion times better than 5d or C300 footage. There are plenty of great examples out there, and frankly the 14bit image from ML raw on the 5D MarkIII has just terrific color. Sometimes I don't even need to touch it, it so close to a scene's actual color.
3) The C300 MarkII can do amazing skin tones that easily rival anything I have seen coming from any other company. Skin tones are frankly what Canon does best. So let's just reign the hyperbole in a little bit.

 

[Bob Gundu]

This isn't an update on the original Pocket Cam. Best to think of it as a pocket version of the Ursa Mini Pro. This is how it was described to me by the BM engineer at the show.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

C. Burkhart

Thanks for sharing his you see it. Maybe some of what you are saying is what I'm seeing, even in the tattoo picture above. I contemplated it.msy have something to do with the way the sensor circuites boost the image which creates a stepped difference in skin tones. You see the dark patches on Daniel's forehead above, as if he has strange scuff marks. You see the dark show in her cheeks, which is more acceptable. Now, you see a high plateauimg if the skin tones around it, and on his nose. Now, going to.tje sample shit, you see this off jumping gradient of skin tone in his arm, and the plateauingnin his hand. Go to the other arm. You can see a clear long pool of burning out brightness there, and jumping out shadow. Very bad on the older micro production camera. I have older pocket cameras with previous Aptina technology, where I have not noticed this. Over ten years ago the tech was different, and yes with ambarella chios doing the skin rendering. So, it's been a bit bewildering seeing cinema cameras do this. I picked up in it the first 4.6k sample I saw too. It's unsettling. I've got Asperger's, and I can spot things, my favourite puzzles as a kid was spot the difference. Plus years ago, skin tunes would even get distorted mid shit, you could see them crawl a bit (unsettling. First zombie skinny tones then that). They did some changes in the Sebring after I reported that.

But yes, at the top E d the skin tones are satiating out, and then rapidly changing from level to level. The desaturation might be related to pixel architecture, but also maybe the color filter. If you try to compensate for lack of anti-akaising filter by making fatter overlapping primaries to try to catch changes in the other channels, you are going to lack more differentiation the brighter you go. Only a theory. But merely pushing up the levels in circuits unevenly, as I think I said previously, could cause this. Bright goes too bright mids jump or something happening there. That would accommodate the tattoo frame, which I know was on a monochrome sensor.

 

[jordan levy]

1) Hey, I said, I liked what I saw coming from the BM pocket camera. However, I was responding to greyness that still existed in a graded image, not a log one.
2) No it does not look a billion times better than 5d or C300 footage. There are plenty of great examples out there, and frankly the 14bit image from ML raw on the 5D MarkIII has just terrific color. Sometimes I don't even need to touch it, it so close to a scene's actual color.
3) The C300 MarkII can do amazing skin tones that easily rival anything I have seen coming from any other company. Skin tones are frankly what Canon does best. So let's just reign the hyperbole in a little bit.

hahaha, ok.
so you were commenting on the grade? someone did with a jpeg? sorry i miss understood.
dont want to argue with you because im learning it doesnt get you anywhere, but i have never, and neither have my top tier colorists, been happy with c300 or 5D footage, though ive shot feature docs and pretty big doc style campaigns on them, never happy. sure the skin tones are nice and warm, but the files are always pretty flimsy.
though ive never shot with a hacked camera like you mentioned.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

(re-edit: In reply to your previous post before the last one).

Jordan I think I'll stick with C. I can see other stuff there, which I hope post can auto neutralise before the main grading (built in resolve app functionality).

Really, skin tones the manufacturers should concentrate on, not just Canon. Hidden signals that something is not right, is not what you want to give the audience.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

He, ha, Jordan. You shoot with an unhacked 5D (who should be shoot now :smiley.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Ok, tremble. This made me think of dressing up in a Godzilla outfit for a YouTube joke, and going up to a BM booth at a trade show with a letter to order my Pocket 4k.

https://www.43rumors.com/new-blackmagic-4k-cinema-camera-versus-panasonic-gh5s-size-comparison/

It's not that much bigger, but boy does it look bigger.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Ok, why I'm here. I have been looking into these allegations that this camera has the same sense as X, y, z cameras. I'll compare to the z-cam e2. The owner says it's 13.5 stops, not 13 like here. 12 million pixels, not 8.x like I keep reading about the pocket. So, maybe a different sensor without 4kp120 mode etc.

 

[jordan levy]

He, ha, Jordan. You shoot with an unhacked 5D (who should be shoot now :smiley.

im laughing at the hacked camera, hmmm, maybe the one who makes a living at it for 25 years. maybe the one who has shot and sold feature docs...maybe..well...
yeah, this is such a great forum, no wonder everyone leaves. im done, have fun debating over nothing.

 

[Raymond Zananiri]

i dont see anything different then what comes out of any camera in log, look at the youtube video of the person who was there shooting what was on the screen.
i have had alexa log footage that looked flatter and more grey then that at first look, the information will be there, it's all about what you do with it.
as jb and others have said, how much can we say off these single images, most of us are pretty blown away, looks a billion times better then any 5d or c300 footage i have seen.

That was not log footage on the show monitor by the way (Youtube clip). The camera was set on ProresHQ with an output LUT ("Film to Extended Video" as I recall it)

 

[Mike P.]

I really hope they can get prores raw in there... I'm sure that's been the number 1 question they've been getting. That would get rid of any (apple) workflow issues and streamline things so much more, especially when doing that direct-to-drive capture.

As I've said, I don't think of this so much as a Raven competitor (though I bet they'd cut together seamlessly)... More so as a replacement for 5DML raw or A7s/A7r or GH4/5/5s. And in that context, it's a no-brainer (hell, used 5D3s are still $1000). I just see massive potential for slapping a Speedbooster XL on there and having FF35 f0.9 lenses and insanely clean ISO3200 in a 4k raw codec up to 60p. That is crazy talk... you'll easily be able to shoot 60p/180deg at night... insane. Further, (on paper) it's much better than having to crank the ISO on an $3000+ A7s/A7r (which is a baked codec and looses DR and colour when you start pushing the ISO).

Oh, and free copy of Resolve Studio...

The only thing standing in its way is Hydrogen, but something tells me RED is gonna end up pushing it out of the price range via proprietary-modularity... Have they (RED) discussed the sensor at all? Will it be r3dcode? Will it be 4k? Will it do internal prores (prores raw)? Is it m43 or 1" or 1/2"?

Conversely, maybe BMD will shit the bed and it'll end up sucking. I'm cautiously optimistic.