NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Misha Engel]

Zcam E2 crushes this camera off the gate. 1.7 Gb/s(!!??) h265 HEVC? 120FPS @4K? NVidia object tracking included? That's what I'm reading into it- admittedly- they have absolutely horrible communication skills and nobody talks about this camera since nobody understands how advanced it is- and people are afraid of embarrassing themselves -not me ;-) ... That camera is on the next level IMO...

Haven't seen any footage of this camera, so I could be great or crap... hope time will tell.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Just some perspective:
Mpeg2 19.2 Mbps is the HD broadcast standard.
Mpeg 4 h264 is 2-4 times more efficient so , theoretically should give close to 4K Broadcast data rate at 20Mbps.
H265 HEVC is 2-4 times more efficient than Mpeg4 so we are looking close to 8K broadcast standard. This camera is waaaaay beyond there at 1.7Gbps like 100x that.
I didn't know that was possible today... Of course I may be embarrassing myself here but hey- we are between friends ...
Trust me- where there is soooo much data coming- the image will be fine....;-)
Oh and 10Nm processor tech mean super low power draw and heat dissipation....

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Just some perspective:
Mpeg2 19.2 Mbps is the HD broadcast standard.
Mpeg 4 h264 is 2-4 times more efficient so , theoretically should give close to 4K Broadcast data rate at 20Mbps.
H265 HEVC is 2-4 times more efficient than Mpeg4 so we are looking close to 8K broadcast standard. This camera is waaaaay beyond there at 1.7Gbps like 100x that.

Delivery broadcast data rates are highly compressed and inferior for acquisition.

There is no "more" than uncompressed raw.
They state 10 bits for that camera and no raw so likely burnt-in RGB, and this one offers lossless 12 bit raw.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

There is no "more" than uncompressed raw.

Actually there is- uncompressed RGB

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Actually there is- uncompressed RGB

In numbers only, while wasting space and potential for post.

This is some serious imaging power in not so serious body.
4K 12 bit raw with high sensitivity. Now let's see rolling shutter, OLPF, texture, practical DR, signal extremes behaviour and base colour science.

 

[Misha Engel]

Actually there is- uncompressed RGB

More data but not necessarily more information.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Hmm... so I am right with the 1.7Gbps. I take 120FPS @4K at this data rate over 60fps 4K raw any day. Who wouldn't ? What else is there that can do that? Under $20k, hell $50K? BTW I think 1.2B colors is enough for humans to see and enjoy- at least for now when we are still on 8bit displays other than editing bays......

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

BTW I think 1.2B colors is enough for humans to see and enjoy-

It may be enough for presentation not acquisition and post because you can get finer tonal sampling and superior post manipulation with greater quantization, then downsample for delivery.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Of course you do.
What would you prefer:
120FPS @4K in 10bit
or
120FPS at HD in 12 bit?

 

[Misha Engel]

Of course you do.
What would you prefer:
120FPS @4K in 10bit
or
120FPS at HD in 12 bit?

Non of the above.
60 fps, 4k, 12 bit is kind of a sweetspot right now.
Most will be shot in 24, 25 or 30 fps 4k, 12 bit.
24 fps for the cinematic look and 25 and 30 fps for TV.

Current UHD Premium is focussed on:

Image Resolution: 3840×2160
Colour Bit Depth: Minimum 10-bit signal
Colour: BT.2020 colour representation
High Dynamic Range: SMPTE ST2084 EOTF

So 12 bits color gives some room to play.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

OK let's try something else
producer/director:
"Lets slow this action sequence to 120"
Do you want to be the one to tell him/her you have to drop the resolution to HD and can't have wide shoot?
Or" we have to get another camera that shoots HS"
I just want to say "OK" ;-)

 

[Misha Engel]

I would tell him "If you want to play with the big boys, pay like the big boys".
And when he really want to go cheap, shoot at 4k 60 fps at half the shutter time and use twixtor to get 120 fps 4k.

And what if he/she want to color correct, there is always a reason to choose for a certain camera.
The bulk will be shot in 24..30 fps.

I've never heard someone complain that the Alexa couldn't shoot 120 fps at 4k.
When you need 120 fps 4k minimum 12 bits, get an other camera(scarlet-W).

 

[Savannah Miller]

Hmm... so I am right with the 1.7Gbps. I take 120FPS @4K at this data rate over 60fps 4K raw any day. Who wouldn't ? What else is there that can do that? Under $20k, hell $50K? BTW I think 1.2B colors is enough for humans to see and enjoy- at least for now when we are still on 8bit displays other than editing bays......

umm the Full size Blackmagic URSA does 120fps 4K uncompressed Raw. And that thing costs $3K. And if it's anything like the last Zcam E1 experience the images will be junk. If you can only go one camera, the blackmagic despite the different form factor is 9.9x out of 10 the better camera. There's only a few times the Z-cam is useful.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

umm the Full size Blackmagic URSA does 120fps 4K uncompressed Raw. And that thing costs $3K. And if it's anything like the last Zcam E1 experience the images will be junk. If you can only go one camera, the blackmagic despite the different form factor is 9.9x out of 10 the better camera. There's only a few times the Z-cam is useful.

I did not know that. But if you go by the Alexa mini popularity and value vs Alexa classic the form factor today seems important. You can get an F65 8K cam for under $10k including the VF.
Why? Because it's a beast that goes through data storage like there is no tomorrow. Apparently nobody cares about the RAW or the 16 bits.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-F65-D...070011?hash=item25f28c493b:g:rPAAAOSw~T9aWQc4

 

[Savannah Miller]

Gonna need lots of ND for native ISO3200 plus a 1.33 stop increase FF35 focal reducer...

It's dual Native ISO 400 and 3200. If you look at the charts the dynamic range distribution is more favorable on the 400iso end so it's actually not bad because with a speedbooster that's more/less like an 800iso equivalent. Biggest issue with this cam is despite the cheap price point you will either invest in more expensive Micro 4/3 glass or use EF lenses with a speedbooster XL. With a speedbooster only full-frame lenses will work due to the large sensor size.

 

[Savannah Miller]

I did not know that. But if you go by the Alexa mini popularity and value vs Alexa classic the form factor today seems important. You can get an F65 8K cam for under $10k including the VF.
Why? Because it's a beast that goes through data storage like there is no tomorrow. Apparently nobody cares about the RAW or the 16 bits.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-F65-D...070011?hash=item25f28c493b:g:rPAAAOSw~T9aWQc4

Yeah there becomes a certain point where datarate is just too much. The Ursa Mini 4K can probably also do 4K at 120fps but I feel they won't add the feature because it will undersell some of their Ursa Mini Pro models where the sensor cannot do that.

 

[jordan levy]

OK let's try something else
producer/director:
"Lets slow this action sequence to 120"
Do you want to be the one to tell him/her you have to drop the resolution to HD and can't have wide shoot?
Or" we have to get another camera that shoots HS"
I just want to say "OK" ;-)

um, that doesnt actually happen on a set without discussion during prep if there is going to be any high speed and if so this is what we are dealing with. if someone has hired you with a particular camera that has limitations, then limitations are discussed far in advance. plus, if someone hired you with a pocketcam, then they get what they get!
have to say though, i preordered mine!

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Of course they do. But I've been on too many film sets when art happens on the spot... remember- pen and pencil- that's where we are going...

 

[Montgomery Sutton]

Pre-ordered yesterday - excited to see how it cuts in with our Epic-W & UMP!

 

[Wayne Morellini]

ProRes so far... : ) But here it is:

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topi...nema-camera-4k/?do=findComment&comment=232657
https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topi...nema-camera-4k/?do=findComment&comment=232673

The tonality on the skin is not quite there, the color is a bit funny, and not as nice as the old pocket, and where is the girl getting her green eyebrows from. I don't know what was done to these images, but how conformable do you guys think it should be to normal image expectations in grading.