NAB 2018: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I think this new camera is great. A bit big though, don't you think?

Still, I'd consider using it as a stills camera. What stills camera do you know that does 60fps? Oh yeah, there isn't one. I'm happy with the resolution, as it will be plenty for what I normally shoot. And it's fairly cheap, which is quite amazing. I also like the 4/3 format.

A 50/1.4 Pentax Super Takumar with it's slightly radioactive yellow tint from the 60's, which I picked up for $60...so instead of popping on an S4i, sometimes I just use that instead because it's so small...

I love hearing about other people's secret weapons! I have one which I haven't used yet, but I got the tip from someone on this site: Canon FD 35-105/3.5. Varifocal but apparently really good, especially on sub-VV sensors.

I have another secret weapon which I'm keeping to myself for now, but it's nothing too fancy.

Exactly. An s35 4K RAW pocket RED is all I want and hope for

Many people want RED to make something like that. I'm very surprised that they haven't.

 

[Savannah Miller]

I think the problem is RED is a top-tier camera manufacturer and has a certain quality standard at which they make their cameras. While not a bad thing, Blackmagic represents the opposite end where they've figured out how to manufacture cameras of a ridiculous price/performance ratio by releasing earlier cameras with slight issues that people generally forgave given their overall performance. Maybe they don't have as much exclusive IP as say RED and their sensors maybe get a spinoff release once Blackmagic has finished the development for their own cameras, but all of this helps to provide better cameras at a lower cost. If this camera has the same sensor as the Kinefinity Terra 4k then the highlight rolloff and general dynamic range should be decent. Not good, but not bad either. On the Terra 4K there's an 8ms sensor readout which is very nice.

The camera is not the most beautiful thing I've ever seen but it's nowhere "ugly" and I feel like it's one of those things you will forget about once you realize the ergonomics are more in line with what you want in this type of small camera. It's not a "pocket" camera anymore, but I'm glad they scaled it up and jammed in better features and image quality vs. trying to live up to the original name.

Given the price of the raven shooting kit ($15K?), I highly doubt they can produce a camera even remotely close to this price point that can shoot redcode, prores, etc. $1295 is a bargain of a price and makes me wonder why people even care about interchangeable lens mounts, sensors, etc. It's so cheap you can just buy another one.

 

[Misha Engel]

From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html

 

[M Most]

From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.

Perhaps. But the BM camera records Prores and, in all likelihood, RAW (either DNG or Prores RAW or perhaps both). The GH5 requires external recorders to do Prores, and doesn't do RAW at all (at least not in the current model).

I have a GH4 and have been pretty satisfied with it, but I don't use it professionally.....

 

[Savannah Miller]

Perhaps. But the BM camera records Prores and, in all likelihood, RAW (either DNG or Prores RAW or perhaps both). The GH5 requires external recorders to do Prores, and doesn't do RAW at all (at least not in the current model).

I have a GH4 and have been pretty satisfied with it, but I don't use it professionally.....

It does RAW and Prores up to 4:2:2 HQ in all resolutions and framerates. Not sure how they were able to get 4K 60fps onto a Cfast 2.0 card but that is pretty impressive. While very gimmicky and probably unreliable, I feel like that moment where he recorded directly from USB to an external SSD and instantly dropped it into Resolve was insane.

The fact that it has a 5 inch screen, 3 recording media options, two audio inputs including mini-XLR, 4K 60fps and 1080p 120fps Prores HQ and Raw in that form factor is very impressive. And $1295 is unbelievable.

Here are the full Specs:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera

 

[Misha Engel]

Not sure how they were able to get 4K 60fps onto a Cfast 2.0 card but that is pretty impressive. While very gimmicky and probably unreliable, I feel like that moment where he recorded directly from USB to an external SSD and instantly dropped it into Resolve was insane.

CinemaDNG RAW - 540 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 256 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 192 MB/s

at 60 fps.

With CDNG RAW 3:1 and 4:1 it is no problem at all.

Why do you think it will be unreliable? It's all proven technology they are using on this camera.

 

[Savannah Miller]

CinemaDNG RAW - 540 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 3:1 - 256 MB/s
CinemaDNG RAW 4:1 - 192 MB/s

at 60 fps.

With CDNG RAW 3:1 and 4:1 it is no problem at all.

Why do you think it will be unreliable? It's all proven technology they are using on this camera.

I was referring to the USB-C external harddisk recording option. Those connectors aren't very durable. And they claim on the website lossless raw too at 60fps. Ursa Mini Pro requires dual card mode to reach those speeds.

 

[Misha Engel]

I was referring to the USB-C external harddisk recording option. Those connectors aren't very durable. And they claim on the website lossless raw too at 60fps. Ursa Mini Pro requires dual card mode to reach those speeds.

From your link "Higher performance UHS-II cards can be used for recording Ultra HD in ProRes at up to 60 frames per second and RAW at up to 30 frames per second."

USB 3.1 Gen 2 is upto 10 Gbit/s so it should be fast enough (when it is Gen 2).
Don't know about the connector, time will tell.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

From what I heard it uses the same sensor as the GH5s.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html

Yeah same sensor as the Panasonic GH5s, ZCam E2, Kinefinity Terra 4k...

That's the go-to cheap cine camera sensor this year it seems.

Only the E2 seems to get the full 4k120 out of the sensor with the help of h265. But for the price the blackmagic seems pretty impressive. Seems like this is the new low budget benchmark. It still has somewhat limited dynamic range though, at 12-13stops max depending who you ask.

 

[Savannah Miller]

From your link "Higher performance UHS-II cards can be used for recording Ultra HD in ProRes at up to 60 frames per second and RAW at up to 30 frames per second."

USB 3.1 Gen 2 is upto 10 Gbit/s so it should be fast enough (when it is Gen 2).
Don't know about the connector, time will tell.

Yeah I was assuming it would be flaky like the mini-HDMI in the pocket camera. The speed is good so that shouldn't be an issue. The audio is the same preamps in the VideoAssist 4K so they should be very good.

The things that are most interesting to me are the USB-C power as that opens up a whole new world of low-cost USB battery banks to power the camera. 3D lut support is interesting too because even the Raven at 10x the cost doesn't have that feature.

E2 is pretty poor codec-wise and from the previous E1 camera I would almost not really call it a cinema camera. If they continue they way they did with the first cam, it will probably be junk. Terra 4k is pretty good and the dynamic range, while a little weak, doesn't look awful. Highlight rolloff looks respectable.

I feel like the idea of USB-C external recording might inspire other camera manufacturers to do the same thing. I think the only other big innovation that made it onto other cameras was Blackmagic being the first camera ever to record Raw and Prores internally. Pretty cool for being only a $1995 camera.

 

[Zack Birlew]

I’m sure LockCirlce will come up with something for the USB-C port worries and the camera looked great in person today! Also, I asked about the Speedbooster support situation and they said that one did work in testing but that it would be best to wait until it comes out, so don’t buy a M4/3 or Pocket Speedbooster ahead of time.

 

[Audy Erel]

... 3D lut support is interesting too because even the Raven at 10x the cost doesn't have that feature. ...Pretty cool for being only a $1995 camera.

My $12,500 Scarlet-W brain doesn't even capable of displaying 3D LUT in playback, let alone baked into the ProRes.. and it only support 17x17x17 LUT. C'mon RED!

 

[John Brawley]

To me, the difference between how RED is approaching this and how BMD is approaching this is that the sensor stack in RED cameras from the Epic Dragon forward are expressly designed to be user serviceable. BMD made the call—for what are probably solid logistical, financial, and engineering reasons—not to include an OLPF in their sensor stack, and a cottage industry of warranty-voiding OLPF installation kits has sprung up over the years. One company is officially sanctioning OLPF replacements and the other isn’t, unless there’s a policy on these I’m not aware of.

I don't think RED are really the paragons of example with OLPFs.

They've had a really really rocky road. I mean the fact that they turned a debacle of their OLPF situation into a feature which they started introducing a fix as if they were always planning interchangeable OLPFs. Why are there different OLPFs for RED cameras ?

Then I still see issues like this attached image that I used to see back in 2013.


This is from a BTS on the new Mission Impossible that's shot DXL
https://youtu.be/Um0aZKbpe1Y . at the 2:07 mark.

I mean, this issue has been there since forever... Everyone's OK with that happening when you get a lens flare ? I didn't like it last time I used RED cameras in ernest and it's still there.

I honestly would rather Blackmagic DID HAVE OLPF's, but it's not a deal breaker in my view, especially when you trade some issues for others like in this example.

Because:


Higher performing lens is more likely to stress missing OLPF problem.
For either technical properties or aesthetic feel.
.

Yes. So how is it that the lens is the OLPF again ?

Response to John
Ok, you say that your cams have not been cherry picked for you by the company, and I believe you. You tell me that I am taking cheap shots. But speaking of cheap shots, I distinctly remember the level of naysaying, denial, conspiracy theories and even character assassination that many of the members of that other forum had when several very valid DP's spoke of a variety of sensor issues.

First of all thank you for your really considered and thoughtful response and for the amount of time you put into it.

I would only respond to say that forums are always like this and you could easily substitute what you've said about BMCUSER and say the same thing if not more so about REDUSER.

Without pointing out the already many infamous situations that are in the history of this forum, it's a reason I dislike posting here.

Thanks again for the lengthy response.

JB

 

[David Peterson]

this is like a studio making a sequel to Gigli. No one asked for it, no one wants it but, fuck it

What on earth are you on about?? It probably is the most asked question Blackmagic Design gets, "when is the BMPCC v2 coming with 4K"? Well, this is it!! :-D

 

[Thomas Koch]

i'll pay $1200 just to get mini XLR's on my Epic-W. I definitely see moving to this cam for a lot of different productions. I usually have the option on what low end 4k camera i shoot with. I've shot a lot with the Sony A6500 and just tested out the GH5. This will be my go to low budget 4k camera. Yes, I have 6k and 8k, and 4.6k when needed, but most of the time, they want me and 4k, but don't want to pay a ton for the camera. They're already paying a lot for me, and know I'll bring a good tool with me.

 

[David Peterson]

I think it will be very successful. Many DPs will forego the Alexa Mini in favour of this. I have wanted the HD version for a long while for photography, but HD isn't quite enough resolution for me. Once my budget allows for new camera purchases, I'm going to take a closer look.

BTW in Australia, the value of the BMPCC on the used market has gone slightly up recently, and I don't know why.

A person will only go for a BMPCC4K over an Alexa Mini if they don't have the budget for the Arri (or if they need NEED true 4K).

As for prices of original BMPCC, they have been holding strong! Has been even higher than their 50% sale price back when I got mine. Shows how awesome and popular the original BMPCC was.

 

[David Peterson]

I refuse to spend any money on BMD's cameras until they start integrating OLPFs. Dealing with aliasing and moire is not something anyone should have to do in 2018. I'll be keeping an eye on this tomorrow...

If it is a really big issue for you personally, you can just do this yourself:

http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/20...low-pass-filter-swap-no-more-ir-contamination

 

[David Peterson]

Now it's this, but I've added an MDR, motor and a transmitter and it's STILL lighter than the RED EPIC was.
https://flic.kr/p/GiuwuX
https://flic.kr/p/Giur96

Glad two boom ops is being used on that show.

Most be exhausting holding that UMP above the surgery table for any extended length of time!

 

[Savannah Miller]

The higher density a sensor is, the less need there is to have an OLPF. Interestingly enough, I believe the Terra 4K (which has a similar if not the same sensor) has an OLPF whereas some of the previous models do not. I wonder if they felt the sensor has moire and aliasing issues bad enough to warrant one? In 99% of scenarios the higher resolution BM cams (4k, 4.6k) don't have moire problems and aliasing is slightly more prominent but it's not that noticeable unless you're pixel peeping.

 

[David Peterson]

With a speed booster, that's FF35 with an extra 1+1/3rd stop at 4k/60p raw with a copy of Resolve Studio for less than $2k? Plus 400 & 3200 native ISO? Seems pretty awesome!

Very curious to know how long it lasts on an LP-E6... If it's 60+mins, that'd be awesome!

Yes, battery life is around 60 minutes ish. But also they have a proper locking power connection, so external powering will be even nicer than it was with the BMPCC