Multiple Cameras

[Eric Santiago]

I know this question is pretty green but I have to ask so I can sleep at nights.

I have a project coming up and they are renting my gear which is a RED Scarlet.

Budget is limited but there is some money for the camera.

Now the question came up if I can provide another camera for the shoot.

Not as a backup but as a second camera during shoots.

Anyone want to share their experiences with trying to support a full feature with a single camera.

I would like to know if I have to bend over backwards to find another Scarlet in my city.

Renting out of town/city/country is out of the question due to the scheduled dates (spread across three week-ends).

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Multiple cameras are great when you have to blow something up and you only get one chance to get lots of different perspectives. Ditto for documentary work, since reality only happens once, and it may reveal itself from an unexpected perspective. However, a single camera is almost always better for dramatic capture because it simplifies lighting (all the lights are right/none of the lights are wrong for the "A" camera), blocking (all of the actors can move relative to the "A" camera, not worrying about the "B" camera seeing or being seen by the "A" camera), etc. It also greatly reduces the amount of data waste: each take can focus on what the actors should be doing for the principal camera, and there's no distraction about what did or didn't happen while the second camera was rolling.

In production work I've seen, people don't go back and forth and back and forth between two camera setups as they chew through dialog. They run all the dialog for one setup and then they run all the dialog for the other setup. (It helps to have good costume, prop, and makeup people to ensure continuity when that spans days.)

My advice would be: if they are trying to save actors' time by rolling two cameras at once, they are going to be making everybody else's life a lot more complicated.

 

[Wil Wong]

Yep. It is easier to sometimes do a 1 cam shoot. You don't have to adjust lights and you don't have to worry about the other camera getting in frame (unless both are on tripods which can be somewhat boring if all the time). You can do a 2 cam shoot if one is a close-up and one is the wide but it can also slow you down.

As for types of cameras, unless it's another scarlet or an epic, it might be trickier to colour match. This is where the white balance is so important.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I personally think it can work, and much dramatic scripted American TV being shot nowadays is all A&B camera. But their shooting style is to put both cameras close together, shooting from the same angle, where one camera has (say) a close-up while the other has a 2-shot of the same characters. Clearly, shooting from the extreme left or the extreme right won't work, because the lighting will be all wrong. I have no problem with a big wide shot in the middle, then a second camera having a medium shot maybe 40% tighter. Wide & tight is not good for a lot of reasons.

Note that you have to make allowances for double the workload for your data wrangler/DIT, you have to have two monitors on set for the director, and you have to have twice as much storage (camera drives and dailies drives). I don't think every situation demands two cameras, but I think it can be helpful to get the editor enough coverage for a scene in a limited amount of time.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

I personally think it can work, and much dramatic scripted American TV being shot nowadays is all A&B camera. But their shooting style is to put both cameras close together, shooting from the same angle, where one camera has (say) a close-up while the other has a 2-shot of the same characters. Clearly, shooting from the extreme left or the extreme right won't work, because the lighting will be all wrong. I have no problem with a big wide shot in the middle, then a second camera having a medium shot maybe 40% tighter. Wide & tight is not good for a lot of reasons.

I have seen that, but mainly with cameras that simply don't have the resolution to do a punch-in and still maintain HD resolution. With a SCARLET DRAGON a 40% punch-in (3657 x 1928) will kill the typical 1080p camera (1371 x 771), which just doesn't have the resolution to give. Of course in this case the EPIC DRAGON begins to roar (4389 x 2257) because it's still more than 4x HD resolution, which means a more-than-perfect HD finish. But the SCARLET DRAGON is no slouch, and can do the job without doubling the work of your camera and media crew.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Shooting multicam on narrative TV is very common. I cut promos form dailies all the time and even 3 cams is very common. They have such short schedules, they need to.

Even multicam in features is much more common than you'd think (the ASC Mag article on Malficent suggested they had up to 4 or 5 cameras rolling at once if you count B-Unit).

 

[Eric Santiago]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

With the budget we have, I just cant see multiple cams.

I fear they might change it to an HD rental to fulfill that.

I have no control but need to defend the cause for a single one.

Regarding multiple angles, Im doing coloring/sound on a martial arts short (using two EX-3 footies) and finding it a pain as far as matching frames.

And yes the amount of data is daunting for a 12 minute short

 

[Eric M Hurt]

I have seen that, but mainly with cameras that simply don't have the resolution to do a punch-in and still maintain HD resolution. With a SCARLET DRAGON a 40% punch-in (3657 x 1928) will kill the typical 1080p camera (1371 x 771), which just doesn't have the resolution to give. Of course in this case the EPIC DRAGON begins to roar (4389 x 2257) because it's still more than 4x HD resolution, which means a more-than-perfect HD finish. But the SCARLET DRAGON is no slouch, and can do the job without doubling the work of your camera and media crew.

He's not talking about punching in on the wide to make a close up (which is generally a terrible idea), he's talking about two cameras next to each other with two different focal length lenses.

If you do put two cameras on the same subject then put the longer lens on the inside (closer to the eye line).

 

[Steve Das]

He's not talking about punching in on the wide to make a close up (which is generally a terrible idea),...

Yes..from a wide master side view 2-shot..it would be terrible idea to punch in for side view close-ups.

But if it's punching in from a dirty over the medium shot into an extreme close-up what would be the
harm in that case..?

 

[Mike P.]

Also depends on content -- if there's any kind of ad lib or improv or mumblecore-non-script (ugh), multiple cameras following multiple characters gives way better results... To the point where I'd say going with dual off the shelf HD cams would actually be more important than one digital cinema cam. Actually comedy in general benefits from multi cams because you can capture better reactions (assuming you're not doing the wide/close with a & b).

That said, two of the last three features I've shot were single cam because of budget. In my opinion, generally speaking, one cam is slower (but you'll be waiting more for talent than anything anyway). Data management is slightly easier with one cam. Costs A LOT less to do one cam, since there is one less camera package to rent and two less mouths to feed/accommodate (B-Op and B-AC)...

Also there are plenty of RED owner/ops in town (Toronto) that would likely help if their package isn't already booked on whatever days you're shooting (Wil? Bob? Me? Vlad?). Also, for consistency and time savings, it's just more efficient and makes more sense to shoot with two of the same camera (for look creation, footage ingesting, and just the ability to set & forget one lights, etc.) Plus redundancy -- if one camera goes down, you can still make the day with the b-cam (ala a 1 cam shoot) while the other camera is being replaced/fixed.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

For the record, I was responding to the idea of going from a medium shot to something 40% tighter, which is very feasible with DRAGON's resolution. I was not talking about a 2x or 3x punch-in.

Also, I perceive that some narrative TV, such as the show Castle, really looks like it's being lit for multiple cameras. In so many scenes, I see an excess of light sources which I don't recall seeing in shows like The X-Files. Maybe I've become more sensitive to the craft. Maybe my mind is just playing tricks on me.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

Also depends on content -- if there's any kind of ad lib or improv or mumblecore-non-script (ugh), multiple cameras following multiple characters gives way better results... To the point where I'd say going with dual off the shelf HD cams would actually be more important than one digital cinema cam. Actually comedy in general benefits from multi cams because you can capture better reactions (assuming you're not doing the wide/close with a & b).

Since the OP just clarified that he's doing martial arts, that would argue for multiple cameras.

 

[Marcos Montenegro]

If you're DPing and manning one camera, only do multiple cameras at the same time if you have a legit operator manning the other one. Also get good ACs for focus. Multiple cameras are great for scenes to catch multiple angles of the same performance, but make sure you plan it ahead of time and everyone knows what they're doing come shoot day.

 

[Eric M Hurt]

Yes..from a wide master side view 2-shot..it would be terrible idea to punch in for side view close-ups.

But if it's punching in from a dirty over the medium shot into an extreme close-up what would be the
harm in that case..?

It's all a matter of esthetics and to a degree, focus.

Focus is relative, so even if you have resolution you still may not have the focus to punch in.

The bigger consideration is the fact that we use different focal length in cinematography to effect the look of each shot. You are thinking simply about the angle of view, a lens choice is not just the angle of view, but about a number of factors. People call certain MM lenses "portrait lens" because they are esthetically pleasing when capturing faces with the tighter DOF. They have a certain DOF at a certain distance with this or that amount of light.
If you punch in on a wide shot you will have all of the same characteristics (except angle of view) of that wider lens including the greater DOF that comes with a wider lens (or a smaller sensor). All of these things work in conjunction to create the image we want. It's unlikely that you'll find seasoned DPs punching in to an extreme closeup from a wider shot. It will always be swinging a lens and shooting the scene again at the new focal length.