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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Monstro sweet spot temp?

Generally speaking, regardless of particular sensor - always around daylight. If scene is low light and warmer temp, pushing ISO + significant temp offset is not advisable.

Small temp offsets around daylight are practically irrelevant, visible noise variables are mostly due to light source quality, transform routes and post temp channel enhancement.
Also, in low light lowest compression possible is advisable.
 
Jens Jakob Thorsen said:
The title says it. Anybody tested what temp is the cleanest in different framerates and ISOs?

Thank you in advance.
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Are you asking about thermal temperature or color temperature? The color temp is easy: designed for 5600K. Thermal temp...dunno.
 
We tested two MONSTRO’s and found 41 on one body & 42 on the second body were much cleaner than ANY other temperature.

As with the HELIUM (44 degree sweet spot) & MONSTRO (41 or 42 degree sweet spot) tests we did, we found quite an improvement in ALL high ISO settings with the pixel noise level when set at these temperatures instead of the 39 degree build temp.

I hope this helps, Stu
 
Stuart Graham said:
We tested two MONSTRO’s and found 41 on one body & 42 on the second body were much cleaner than ANY other temperature.

As with the HELIUM (44 degree sweet spot) & MONSTRO (41 or 42 degree sweet spot) tests we did, we found quite an improvement in ALL high ISO settings with the pixel noise level when set at these temperatures instead of the 39 degree build temp.

I hope this helps, Stu
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Did you ever do similar tests with Dragon or MX? Did they also have a sweet spot?
 
Stuart Graham said:
We tested two MONSTRO’s and found 41 on one body & 42 on the second body were much cleaner than ANY other temperature.

As with the HELIUM (44 degree sweet spot) & MONSTRO (41 or 42 degree sweet spot) tests we did, we found quite an improvement in ALL high ISO settings with the pixel noise level when set at these temperatures instead of the 39 degree build temp.

I hope this helps, Stu
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Thank you Stuart! I will test these temps.
 
Jens Jakob Thorsen said:
Thank you Stuart! I will test these temps.
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Cool! if you are gonna do it then...

My testing method:
Try the 'quick' manual 1st to find the best temp.
Once it's reached the desired 'adaptive fan temp' (for example 40) then leave it there for a good few mins to make sure it's all settled at 40.
> MANUAL calibrate the sensor (just for testing as AUTO is better)
> load this calibration & making sure 'Adaptive fan is at 40.
> Shoot a few second clip still with the lens cap or mount cap on (so you get the darkest black possible)
> Load the clip into RCX
> select a frame & push the Iso to 12800
> Exposure Adjust all the way to 8.000 (basically so both sliders are max to the right :)
> asses this hideously noisy black frame & the oddities, hot pixels, straight lines of horror etc.
> Repeat the process up to 46? degrees & analyse each shot at each temp.
> when you have your favourite temp for your or that camera repeat the process at that temp but with AUTO sensor calibration you should see quite an improvement.

Obviously a +8 stops & 12800ISO shot isn't really gonna cut it but it's a great way of seeing a true 'black' image without any pollution or change in light over the testing time...it's a constant which in testing is really job#1 IMO.

Good luck & please post your results as personally the difference between factory 39 & the higher my 40/41 sweet spot is a lot.

Stu
 
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Stuart Graham said:
Cool! if you are gonna do it then...


> MANUAL calibrate the sensor (just for testing as AUTO is better)

> when you have your favourite temp for your or that camera repeat the process at that temp but with AUTO sensor calibration you should see quite an improvement.


Stu
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Hey Stuart, Everything that's been posted about IPP2 cameras says that a MANUAL Cal is better. Curious as to why you think that AUTO is the best route.
 
kevinjoelson said:
Hey Stuart, Everything that's been posted about IPP2 cameras says that a MANUAL Cal is better. Curious as to why you think that AUTO is the best route.
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my take on this is....

I have tested both Auto and Manual and there is basically no meaningful difference.. (differnce yes... meaningful no)

When you are in Auto you have so much more flexibility over shutter and frame rate that your chance of clean images is vastly increased.. (Someone on this list collected a lot of BTS stills from Red dmc1 on big productions and what was intereting is that temperature (T) or exposure (E) in relation to the active calibration map was nearly always way off!!)
 
I always used 46C on the Weapon Magnesium Dragon sensor and had great results (I would have loved to have even more noise...) and this mainly to get the fan noise as low as possible in adaptive mode. But I've read people saying the cooler the electronics are the better the picture noise results should be... So I'll definitly retest my camera with your procedure Stu.

Not sure about the black picture, I might probably shoot a colorchart in lowlow light controlled situation.


Pat


PS: My T and E are 100% always green. I shoot automatic cal map.
 
kevinjoelson said:
Hey Stuart, Everything that's been posted about IPP2 cameras says that a MANUAL Cal is better. Curious as to why you think that AUTO is the best route.
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Hi,
The images said otherwise.
Just to clarify AUTO is the longer and more in depth calibration covering more speeds and more shutter angles too.
MANUAL is the lesser window of the two and a 5 or 6 min quick calibration.

Try it for yourself as I can definitely see AUTO is cleaner.

Stu
 
Stuart Graham said:
Hi,
The images said otherwise.
Just to clarify AUTO is the longer and more in depth calibration covering more speeds and more shutter angles too.
MANUAL is the lesser window of the two and a 5 or 6 min quick calibration.

Try it for yourself as I can definitely see AUTO is cleaner.

Stu
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Copy, Thanks for your insight. Going to run some tests now.
 
There’s possibly an argument that this method is using a sensor that hasn’t seen ANY light and thus would act differently to one that has?

In other words does a photo-site act differently in total darkness to one that has had a 10 stop + underexposure ‘activation’ ?

S
 
What is the stock temp on those guys? 36C? Seeing 44C as the cleanest temperature, makes me think I'm shooting to cool? Also, whenever I'm in super cold environments, I have a tough time getting the camera up to temp. Any thoughts, ideas on how to keep that guy warm in the Tundra?
 
9 times out of 10 I will recommend Manual Sensor Calibration.

General reasons.
- It takes far less time
- Remember you have a operating range on a Manual Cal, like if you need to go from 1/48th to 1/96th, you can do that on the same cal
- It does result in higher quality footage, especially in tricky exposure conditions

Sensor Temperature, Image Noise, and Optimal Image quality will slightly vary on a sensor by sensor basis. It's a very, alarmingly subtle thing. I tend to keep both of my cameras at the same temp and because I shoot in a broad range of temps, the ambient temperature more often than not dictates where I need to calibrate at.


Sensor Calibration does a few things, but one of it's main features is to generate a CalMap to combat a Fixed Noise Pattern that is inherent in all digital imaging sensors.

Some people in the past, like DSMC1 days, ran up their cameras to calibrate at really high temps to get the cleanest image possible, but there was a moderate hit to Total Captured Dynamic Range for instance.

Generally speaking if you are calibrating in the range the cameras allow, especially on DSMC2, you'll be capturing high quality material with DR in the wheelhouse of the spec.
 
Hello,

Here my little test for the Weapon MG Dragon with LLO olpf.

Shot with 2800K tungsten lamp at 6400 iso to see the noise structure.

I don't see any difference between a manual callibration of the sensor at 40C or at 48C.

Tomorrow I'll try to get the callibration to 30C if the summer temp permits it...

What are you thoughts?

Patrick
 
Why is this still a thing? Every other camera manufacturer has a temp that their camera and sensor is optimized at and the camera is in charge of keeping it there.

Auto Cal is close to getting it, but why do we have to mess with Temp settings? Is each sensor ( in the same line ) behaving so much differently?
 
Charles Bergquist said:
Why is this still a thing? Every other camera manufacturer has a temp that their camera and sensor is optimized at and the camera is in charge of keeping it there.

Auto Cal is close to getting it, but why do we have to mess with Temp settings? Is each sensor ( in the same line ) behaving so much differently?
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I don't see any difference between 40C and 48C.

The only point to change the Fan temp -> Calibration temp is to have a quieter Fan (if set to 46C) or a cooler camera and electronics (if set to 40C).

Pat
 
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