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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Monitoring for resolve

J

Jon MIchael Puntervold

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I bought the Resolve licence a few weeks back, and need to get started on building a decent suite...

Any recommendations on decent monitors? I've been thinking about the 27" ColorEdge by Eizo. It can auto calibrate during night time, but it's not an SDI monitor. Why would I really need an SDI-monitor anyways? Display-port connection is good enough for print, should it not be good enough for film-work?
 
There are a lot of discussions about monitoring solutions on this forum. Just use the search function.
Also you might want to read a little bit about 8bit vs. 10bit, color space, luts and so on. FXphd offers good and quite cheap online classes.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
I bought the Resolve licence a few weeks back, and need to get started on building a decent suite...

Any recommendations on decent monitors? I've been thinking about the 27" ColorEdge by Eizo. It can auto calibrate during night time, but it's not an SDI monitor. Why would I really need an SDI-monitor anyways? Display-port connection is good enough for print, should it not be good enough for film-work?
Click to expand...
I'm going to ignore your obvious left leaning tendencies for a second and recommend to you to consider only monitors with SDI or HDMI inputs. For proper full screen 10 bit Resolve monitoring you must use BM card, like a Decklink. Please consider reading DaVinci Resolve 9 Configuration manual, where you'll find many answers to questions just like yours. Decklink card have HDMI and SDI outputs, hence the necessity for the monitor to have the same inputs. Display port on a Mac is still only 8 bit, even if theoretically it is capable of much wider bit depth.
 
Paul Provost said:
Oh. My. God.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the help. I used to do SDI-monitoring back in 2005 when I did HD-stuff in-house, would think that perhaps there has been some evolvement making the process of using one of the 3-4 BM HD-converters I've got laying around obsolete.
 
jake blackstone said:
Decklink card have HDMI and SDI outputs, hence the necessity for the monitor to have the same inputs. Display port on a Mac is still only 8 bit, even if theoretically it is capable of much wider bit depth.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I did not release that 10 bit output is the reason for using a BM-card for outputs. Are any of the BM-cards better for Resolve than the others? They've made quite a few cards throughout the years, and we have several of them.

Are there any reasons for going through an SDI-converter, if both the output card and the monitor has HDMI. I would guess that skipping a converter would be beneficiary?
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Thank you, I did not release that 10 bit output is the reason for using a BM-card for outputs. Are any of the BM-cards better for Resolve than the others? They've made quite a few cards throughout the years, and we have several of them.

Are there any reasons for going through an SDI-converter, if both the output card and the monitor has HDMI. I would guess that skipping a converter would be beneficiary?
Click to expand...
No, the main reason to use BM card is to get the full screean playback, as well as the 10 bit support. Hdmi is fine. Pretty much any BM card will work with Resolve. So, if you already have the card, you're all set.
 
The ColorEdge displays are really good for print work. I would guess they can be calibrated quite correctly to the color space for cinema? The 27" has a resolution of 2560x1440. Is it possible/a good idea to grade at 2.5k for 4k footage?
 
If you only do web then the EIZO is great, but if you do any broadcast work it will not be sufficient. I'd recommend a Panasonic BT300 or VT50 plasma for broadcast work, mainly for three reasons:

1) viewing angle (plasmas don't have restrictions there)

2) better blacks

3) rec 709 (or whatever local television colorspace) native

I have graded with good LCD monitors in the past, but color shifts in viewing angle is always an issue, no matter how great the panel is - as soon as you start having conversations with clients about minute ticks in color and they're not seeing the exact same thing as you it becomes too much of a moving target.

JT
 
Thank you for the input. We'll only do cinema-grade, and some web/iPad-stuff. Broadcast-masetering will be done externally.
 
For cinema grading you absolutely will want to grade from a projector. While it's possible to do the work from a monitor, the light levels and saturation levels in theatrical projection is quite different, as is the official colorspace (P3 / XYZ).

Ideally you'll set up a DCI compliant projector, but you can get pretty close with high end consumer models. I've been grading on an NEC is8 for about a year, and it's great, plus a bargain on the used market. Screens can be expensive, and these projectors are bright as hell, so not good for smaller rooms / screen sizes.

I haven't graded on a prosumer projector in a while, last one I used with good success was a JVC RS-35 D-ILA projector. There are newer models now, not really sure how well they work for this sort of thing.

Calibration is, IMHO, the number one most important thing for any display device. For plasma and projectors you'll need a non-contact probe like the xrite eye1 display pro or Klein K-10 (that's what I use). Contact probes will work on LCD, but not on these other display technologies.


best,

JT
 
If I was only doing grading for TV i would not be to scared to look at a 8bit mac screen to judge the colors... as all TV stations I know of broadcast in 8 bit.... If your screen is properly calibrated I think a 8 bit screen works just fine if you know what you are looking at.
 
John Tissavary said:
For cinema grading you absolutely will want to grade from a projector. While it's possible to do the work from a monitor, the light levels and saturation levels in theatrical projection is quite different, as is the official colorspace (P3 / XYZ).
Click to expand...

I see, but I think I'll be unable to do full screen cinema at the moment, due to space (unfortunately, as I have a set of unused CROWN amplifiers and professional JBL Cinema sound system in boxes, long story...).

Both the Panasonic BT300 and DreamColor (and maybe also the Eizo) displays has a DCI P3 mode... my idea was to do most of the colour correction at our small facility, and do the final adjustments at the local cinema.

Not a good idea?
 
John Tissavary said:
I've been grading on an NEC is8 for about a year, and it's great, plus a bargain on the used market.
Click to expand...

I were not able to find a price for a NEC is8 at the moment, but at about what level can I expect to find them? And what are the smallest/ideal screen size for a projector like this?
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Both the Panasonic BT300 and DreamColor (and maybe also the Eizo) displays has a DCI P3 mode... my idea was to do most of the colour correction at our small facility, and do the final adjustments at the local cinema.
Click to expand...
I don't think that will be workable for a film-out.

I would strongly suggest you try a 3-minute piece as a test and see how it goes. I think this would be insane to try for a full feature project, especially if you don't have the ability to switch back and forth between film and digital on the same screen. (Strictly my opinion.) That means you need a P3-capable digital projector and a remote-controllable 35mm film projector, like the Kinoton, capable of rolling forwards and backwards.

I have no problem doing a basic technical grade on a calibrated monitor, then take the project to a full-size theater for the final color-correction pass with the client. But the reality is that overall brightness and contrast do not translate well between (say) a 50" screen and a 15' screen. A lot will also depend on the specific LUT and color-management software you're using.
 
Björn Benckert said:
If I was only doing grading for TV i would not be to scared to look at a 8bit mac screen to judge the colors... as all TV stations I know of broadcast in 8 bit.... If your screen is properly calibrated I think a 8 bit screen works just fine if you know what you are looking at.
Click to expand...

Lol

Cannot tell you exactly how much I agree

It is all about calibration and physical contrast levels.
Bits don't mean much if you do not have the gammut to display them...


That said, I have seen some truly horrendous screens recently.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I don't think that will be workable for a film-out.

I would strongly suggest you try a 3-minute piece as a test and see how it goes. I think this would be insane to try for a full feature project, especially if you don't have the ability to switch back and forth between film and digital on the same screen. (Strictly my opinion.) That means you need a P3-capable digital projector and a remote-controllable 35mm film projector, like the Kinoton, capable of rolling forwards and backwards.

I have no problem doing a basic technical grade on a calibrated monitor, then take the project to a full-size theater for the final color-correction pass with the client. But the reality is that overall brightness and contrast do not translate well between (say) a 50" screen and a 15' screen. A lot will also depend on the specific LUT and color-management software you're using.
Click to expand...

All depends on color management in ALL the chain... monitor, film-recorder and lab... I have never had a problem with Dreamcolor... or any other monitor I successfully calibrate with film-outs regarding contrast or gamma... As I say its the FULL color management that needs to be take cared when we intent to do film-out not just the monitors LUTs...

Projector or monitors all are good and capable to deliver very good results as long as the lab is fully collaborating and capable to deliver stable and consistent results on film developing as well as the facility that does film recording is able to be also consistent...
 
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