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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Modular Dragon OLPF sneak peak

Denis Buhot said:
As impressive as it seems, I just wonder if this is supposed to be a permanent fix, or a more temporary solution. I confess that was expecting some color science/future build improvement allowing nice skin tones, no flare, low-light capacity and noise-free images, all in one...
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I'm with you Denis. It's really hard for me to understand all the excitement over this. This is the DRAGON SENSOR, hyped for two years, and now we have to change OLPF's in order achieve the specs advertised. I can appreciate the need for this to be work in progress, I really do, but if this is the final product/fix, with no in camera implementation, I for one am disappointed. This isn't like a film stock, you can't change in 30 seconds. You need visit a clean safe environment before you change how your camera see's the world. I thought the Epic Dragon was going to be just that, EPIC.
 
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steve green said:
I'm with you Denis. It's really hard for me to understand all the excitement over this. This is the DRAGON SENSOR, hyped for two years, and now we have to change OLPF's in order achieve the specs advertised. I can appreciate the need for this to be work in progress, I really do, but if this is the final product/fix, with no in camera implementation, I for one am disappointed. This isn't like a film stock, you can't change in 30 seconds. You need visit a clean safe environment before you change how your camera see's the world. I thought the Epic Dragon was going to be just that, EPIC.
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Guys, remember the founder's words?

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
 
I'm with you Denis. It's really hard for me to understand all the excitement over this. This is the DRAGON SENSOR, hyped for two years, and now we have to change OLPF's in order achieve the specs advertised. I can appreciate the need for this to be work in progress, I really do, but if this is the final product/fix, with no in camera implementation, I for one am disappointed. This isn't like a film stock, you can't change in 30 seconds. You need visit a clean safe environment before you change how your camera see's the world. I thought the Epic Dragon was going to be just that, EPIC.
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Totally agree I just hope that they have it where you don't have to put on different filters in the camera to make it work. Just make the whole thing work.
 
Elsie N said:
Guys, remember the founder's words?

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
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What a 100% cop out. I do believe RED is more professional now than hiding behind this get out of jail card - at least I hope so.
 
Bohdan Klos said:
What a 100% cop out. I do believe RED is more professional now than hiding behind this get out of jail card - at least I hope so.
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Wehhhhllll, the Dragon's delivery date did change, and the specs too have changed (for the better IMO.)

Draw you own conclusions as to whether or not that statement is still relevant. '-)
 
Elsie N said:
Wehhhhllll, the Dragon's delivery date did change, and the specs too have changed (for the better IMO.)

Draw you own conclusions as to whether or not that statement is still relevant. '-)
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You got me... I agree with you - the specs were botched as was the release date. Great argument for RED domination! lol. You can prove to me they disappointed us. Well done.
 
Bohdan Klos said:
You got me... I agree with you - the specs were botched as was the release date. Great argument for RED domination! lol. You can prove to me they disappointed us. Well done.
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Bohdan, I think you and some others are going to be disappointed irregardless of what RED does. The positive comments on this thread seem to suggest a large measure of excitement! that the negative comments can't quell.

SEMPER RED!
 
Antoine Baumann said:
Dragon low key Vision
Dragon high key Vision
Dragon Clear Vision

this OLPF swap is like getting different stock in the same camera! How's that? Fuck I still cannot believe it! The first digital camera that will do it! Thanks RED!!!
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This is what sony has done for quite some time with the F65 and F55... just saying.


Just so I got it right:

Red will add a few different dragon OLPF kits with different character to the web shop and it's if having new or old dragon olpf at the moment this is something we can buy and install our selfs, correct? i.e I can rip out my current fixed olpf and replace it with a swapable system, or?
 
steve green said:
I'm with you Denis. It's really hard for me to understand all the excitement over this. This is the DRAGON SENSOR, hyped for two years, and now we have to change OLPF's in order achieve the specs advertised. I can appreciate the need for this to be work in progress, I really do, but if this is the final product/fix, with no in camera implementation, I for one am disappointed. This isn't like a film stock, you can't change in 30 seconds. You need visit a clean safe environment before you change how your camera see's the world. I thought the Epic Dragon was going to be just that, EPIC.
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What excites me about this is we will have more options. I'm looking at these OLPFs like they are different film stocks. We can use the standard OPLF for daylight work or when we want a very clean look, we can use the low light optimized OPLF when we're shooting at night or guerilla style. If we need some specialized looks we can do IR or something customized with the clear OPLF. That it's not totally built in is also a plus because we're not limited to the standard options and we can experiment with new OPLFs as they become available. Don't be surprised if other manufacturers offer similar functionality soon.
 
Elsie N said:
Guys, remember the founder's words?

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
Click to expand...


No, I haven't forgotten the statement, but how can I not be disappointed when the system is losing that cutting edge feel. What I mean by that is, first, it's a post production software workaround for one issue, and now it's changing internal, very sensitive parts (OLPF) in the field to alleviate another issue(s). Do we really believe this isn't going to cause other problems such as back focus, dirt, or possibly a damaged sensor. At the very least, it's a time drag on production if changing the OLPF becomes a multiple times a day necessity. Do we start planning our shoots around the need to take the time to make these changes. IMO this is getting convoluted and messy.
 
steve green said:
No, I haven't forgotten the statement, but how can I not be disappointed when the system is losing that cutting edge feel. What I mean by that is, first, it's a post production software workaround for one issue, and now it's changing internal, very sensitive parts (OLPF) in the field to alleviate another issue(s). Do we really believe this isn't going to cause other problems such as back focus, dirt, or possibly a damaged sensor. At the very least, it's a time drag on production if changing the OLPF becomes a multiple times a day necessity. Do we start planning our shoots around the need to take the time to make these changes. IMO this is getting convoluted and messy.
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Steve, Admittedly, I probably have a different need than you. For me the current sensor works fine and with my workflow, DEB, especially when it gets out in the SDK (which may be awhile since Graeme may have found a way to make things even better) will fit my needs.

I'm also guessing you are working your equipment regularly and want things now. But I'm willing to settle for DEB in REDCINE for now in order to get an even better image in the future.

And I'm thinking the concerns you have vis a vis the OLPF changes aren't going to present as often as you think. I'm guessing when the dust settles and everyone gets used to shooting the current OLPF, the only changes anyone is going to make is for the specialty versions.

And that's why I'm so excited about the changeable OLPFs. For me, they give me a way to shoot IR footage that wasn't available to me before. I'm probably a little over-enthusiastic about this, but that's because I want RED to understand that I believe they are on the right track.

Yes, my viewpoint is self-serving.
 
steve green said:
No, I haven't forgotten the statement, but how can I not be disappointed when the system is losing that cutting edge feel. What I mean by that is, first, it's a post production software workaround for one issue, and now it's changing internal, very sensitive parts (OLPF) in the field to alleviate another issue(s). Do we really believe this isn't going to cause other problems such as back focus, dirt, or possibly a damaged sensor. At the very least, it's a time drag on production if changing the OLPF becomes a multiple times a day necessity. Do we start planning our shoots around the need to take the time to make these changes. IMO this is getting convoluted and messy.
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Agree,

I had my dragon away for a long repair... some clients tried out different modules (back of camera) they managed to break the pins on a few modules and also on the back of the camera.... now do I want these guys to fiddle with different olpf's.... shoot with one during daylight then in great stress swap for the nightvision olpf right before sunset, etc... it makes me worried. I had clients completely mess up a motionmount (getting a lot of dust and hair stuck on the tape that holds the little rubber frame that goes against the olpf)... again are these guys going to be able to pull out everything thats infront of the sensor... hmm, on my camera I hope not. :)

But the good thing with this, I think, is that it will open up for experimentation. People will for sure start to make their own olpf's for fun and I think that will lead to some interesting choices.

I had both, old and new olpf. And all I can say is that I wish for a perfect combo of the two, one that has the low light ability but does not have the highlight red dot sensor flare and also the highlight protection of the new. But if that could not be all fitted into one bit of glass I actually think I would go for lowlight performance (but without the red sensor flair dots) rather than the current highlight protection that I find being a bit overprotective.

And I'm also a bit worried that these olpf's will be like filters, in other words it does not matter how many you buy... the rental clients will always ask for the one you do not have.
 
Björn Benckert said:
differnet shape size etc of the space between mount and sensor.
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vader.jpg
 
What do y'all think of the effect this procedure will have on the dry rental market, for Dragon? Maybe a quad screwdriver (with a hold and release lever, allowing release for full thread travel after a predetermined distance of travel), that has a torque gauge and limiter on it would be helpful.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
How much are these going to cost?
 
in general i think this is a great new feature but i am even ore confused now about the actual specs....is it 14?15? stops and with which olpf? the old olpf did not have the 16+ stops promised and serious other problems, so it was replaced.....the new one lacks the DR in the shadows and adds noise, so now we are getting a whole bunch of olpfs....great but what if i just want one....the one that red had in mind when the dragon was first launched and the specs were released....
i don't see any of these olpfs making the dragon this huge improvement...they probably all will for different situations and it might be fun to have that option but in general it is more of a drag...
use this one for the highlights and this one for shadows and this one for high iso......call me greedy but i want all of that.....and especially since quite a bit more was promised....

dxomark tested the d810 (same sensor as d800 and a7r) and nikon squeezed an extra little bit out of the sensor....it caught up with the dragon in DR and got closer in color....i wonder if they did that with software or olpf?
 
paul schefz said:
in general i think this is a great new feature but i am even ore confused now about the actual specs....is it 14?15? stops and with which olpf? the old olpf did not have the 16+ stops promised and serious other problems, so it was replaced.....the new one lacks the DR in the shadows and adds noise, so now we are getting a whole bunch of olpfs....great but what if i just want one....the one that red had in mind when the dragon was first launched and the specs were released....
i don't see any of these olpfs making the dragon this huge improvement...they probably all will for different situations and it might be fun to have that option but in general it is more of a drag...
use this one for the highlights and this one for shadows and this one for high iso......call me greedy but i want all of that.....and especially since quite a bit more was promised....

dxomark tested the d810 (same sensor as d800 and a7r) and nikon squeezed an extra little bit out of the sensor....it caught up with the dragon in DR and got closer in color....i wonder if they did that with software or olpf?
Click to expand...
810 is Expeed 4 newer sensor.
 
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