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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Modular Dragon OLPF sneak peak

Joseph Coleman said:
What about a Monochrome OLPF?? Isn't it the OLPF/ or lack of, that makes Monochrome what it is? or am I misinformed? Would be amazing to be able to just switch it out.
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The monochrome OLPF has nothing to do with making it monochrome .. the black and white part happens on the actual sensor and more specifically on the removal of color filters inside the sensor.

That said, we did need to develop a custom OLPF for the Monochrome Dragon because every pixel is used for imaging and the pixel pitch is different... the old OLPF would of neutered the resolution unnecessarily. That is why the monochrome Dragon is easily twice as sharp as the Color Dragon.
 
Jarred Land said:
To some people that have the ability to light a scene they are going to prefer color accuracy and higher end protection over everything else. Those guys are the ones really happy right now with the new OLPF.
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Raises hand.


Neil Dearman said:
so this will fix the noise issue? Please confirm thanks (I got my email about my Dragon Upgrade and the only thing that is making me wait is the noise issue)
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Noise issue. A little frustrating from my perspective in how this is being described lately. However, I am one of the dudes who has had both OLPFs in my Dragon and previously shot with the prototype builds and I'm testing D.E.B. out a lot.

So with that a couple things.


The "red specks" have been solved by the new "Dragon Enhanced Blacks", or D.E.B. See this
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?119217-DSMC-Camera-Firmware-release-5-1-55-and-5-2-21-beta&p=1391108&viewfull=1#post1391108

I am holding off on posting the maybe a hundred tests I've since done with the new D.E.B. color science, but what it is doing is improving the image overall through and adaptive debayer algorithm, which actually improves color channel and detail performance. This is a slight image quality boost overall. This is coming to Redcine-X Pro alarmingly soon and likely will be released in the 3rd Party SDK shortly after so we can use it with our favorite tools.


Noise. The previous OLPF is going to allow cleaner images at higher ISO ratings. However, there is a price on that. You will still potentially have the "red dots" at smaller apertures with intense highlights and shadows. Also, orbs may appear around highlights under certain conditions. Highlight retention is also effected.

The new OLPF remedies that but at the cost at being "noisier" at higher ISO ratings. This is all covered in this post here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?112230-the-New-Dragon-OLPF


It's tremendous that Red is going to allow us to define the camera we want to shoot with via the OLPF swap. It's going to be really fun and useful for various shooting situations.
 
Neil Dearman said:
so this will fix the noise issue? Please confirm thanks (I got my email about my Dragon Upgrade and the only thing that is making me wait is the noise issue)
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Of course.. the " noise issue " is people comparing the Dragons with the old OLPF vs Dragons with the new OLPF. It has nothing to do with the sensor or the camera or the software.,, it is purely optical. The new OLPF looses about a stop in the low end ( i.e. more noise ) for the benefit of better color science and increased latitude in highlights. Some people love it.. some people hate it. D.E.B makes the noise in the new OLPF much better.. but you still are starting from an optical difference.

Now it will be easier to decide which side of the fence they want to be on.. and jump back and forth on demand. Should make everyone happy.. even though we all know that wont last for long.
 
i hope red will post raw files comparing/showing the difference between these....that would be the best way to keep the discussions to a minimum...
 
Phil Holland said:
Raises hand.

Noise issue. A little frustrating from my perspective in how this is being described lately. .
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Heh heh.. dont worry Phil, you are one of the ones that " get's it ".

Our high end customers who spend more money on camera prep and testing than alot of other films entire budgets prefer the new OLPF and the vastly improved color science and highlight protection... after testing both extensively over and over and over again. It is the smart man's choice.

But it doesnt hurt to have the option... for whatever reason. And even if not the old OLPF the choice to have some options on creative filters in that space is a good one to have.
 
This looks cool, though I am a little confused, does this mean the noise issue wont be solved on the new OLPF and that this is the solution? I've been waiting with high eagerness for a new build that will fix this. I love, love, love the highlight rolloff and skintones, but I'd heard that the current noise (which to me feels worse then Mysterium-X) would be fixed after Graeme does his magic on the newer OLPF profile. Thoughts?
 
Shawn Nelson said:
This looks cool, though I am a little confused, does this mean the noise issue wont be solved on the new OLPF and that this is the solution? I've been waiting with high eagerness for a new build that will fix this. I love, love, love the highlight rolloff and skintones, but I'd heard that the current noise (which to me feels worse then Mysterium-X) would be fixed after Graeme does his magic on the newer OLPF profile. Thoughts?
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I believe this is just to give the customer more options when shooting. Not a fix, that they are still working on.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
This looks cool, though I am a little confused, does this mean the noise issue wont be solved on the new OLPF and that this is the solution? I've been waiting with high eagerness for a new build that will fix this. I love, love, love the highlight rolloff and skintones, but I'd heard that the current noise (which to me feels worse then Mysterium-X) would be fixed after Graeme does his magic on the newer OLPF profile. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

The new build with DEB does "correct" the noise on the new OLPF., but it does not completely "remove" it... you still will have some noise but not the red ugly noise when you push things too far... along with a bit of tonality correction and micro tweaks that just kick ass.

Dragon with the new OLPF and color science is definitely better than the MX in every way including noise... but not as noise free as the Dragon with the old OLPF... that is what everyone is comparing things against.
 
Am I nuts to be thinking about taking the Clear OLPF and customizing it with various coatings to create bizarre organic or linear flaring?
 
Tom Greenberg said:
Am I nuts to be thinking about taking the Clear OLPF and customizing it with various coatings to create bizarre organic or linear flaring?
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You and John Marchant should get together :)
 
Ok just a couple questions, will these OPLF's create any issues with the Motion Mounts or have to be used separately?
And how does it effect the depth of the sensor chamber? Shallower, the same, same only different?
Also first order for the IR OPLF please... Can't wait
thanks Red for giving us more choices... Again.



Originally Posted by Tom Greenberg
Am I nuts to be thinking about taking the Clear OLPF and customizing it with various coatings to create bizarre organic or linear flaring?
I see an anamorphic flare OPLF in the future. And much much more artistic freedom. So cool.
 
Jarred Land said:
The new build with DEB does "correct" the noise on the new OLPF., but it does not completely "remove" it... you still will have some noise but not the red ugly noise when you push things too far... along with a bit of tonality correction and micro tweaks that just kick ass.

Dragon with the new OLPF and color science is definitely better than the MX in every way including noise... but not as noise free as the Dragon with the old OLPF... that is what everyone is comparing things against.
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That sounds amazing! Any idea when that'll be a Release build?
 
Shawn Nelson said:
That sounds amazing! Any idea when that'll be a Release build?
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Very soon. it was going to be yesterday but Graeme had one of his dreams again and woke up somehow with a few more knobs to turn that turned out to be pretty genius.... so we are just playing with those right now. If it looks like those new knobs are going to add weeks to get right.. we will just release an intermediate build to kill the wait.
 
Jarred Land said:
Very soon. it was going to be yesterday but Graeme had a dream and woke up somehow with a few more knobs to turn.... so we are just playing with those right now. If it looks like those new knobs are going to add weeks to get right.. we will just release an intermediate build.
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God bless ya :-). Very great news indeed, can't wait.

To get the thread back on track, an OLPF that let in all IR (or an IR only OLPF) so we can do those crazy IR images would be really cool.
 
Jarred Land said:
Very soon. it was going to be yesterday but Graeme had one of his dreams again and woke up somehow with a few more knobs to turn that turned out to be pretty genius.... so we are just playing with those right now. If it looks like those new knobs are going to add weeks to get right.. we will just release an intermediate build to kill the wait.
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Great news!
 
Thanks for the response! This is exciting. I'll be sticking with my new OLPF but sending my camera back when it's time to install the new OLPF module and I'll probably buy the old OLPF for lowlight circumstances. The clear could be very very interesting ;)
 
Mark van Coller said:
I don't know if this is on the RED horizon but please consider making an under water OLPF as light does some strange things down there.
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+1 for underwater - happy to help if needed
 
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