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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Mirror flares

D

David Cho

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I am wondering if anyone has ever seen something like this?

This is a mirror flare. I am wondering what could be causing this? I have seen this effect with my Red One using Nikons and Zeiss PL Lenses.

Right click, save as
 
Charles Angus said:
That looks like a filter flare to me - did you have a filter on the lens (even just a UV, haze, clear, or 'optical flat')?

Any glass in front of the lens can do this.
Click to expand...

This clip was shot with a Zeiss Standard Prime 85mm. No filters, no mattebox. Just the bare lens on the Red Body.
 
I had never thought about focusing on a flare. (I've only been creating images for 30 years or so... I'm still learning.) I had to try it. I set up a light about 6 1/2 feet away from the camera. The flare came into focus at about 10 feet.

At some point, on some project, that effect will come in handy.
 
Larry McKee said:
I had never thought about focusing on a flare. (I've only been creating images for 30 years or so... I'm still learning.) I had to try it. I set up a light about 6 1/2 feet away from the camera. The flare came into focus at about 10 feet.

At some point, on some project, that effect will come in handy.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, Larry. Maybe you can get a UFO flare like this one:
http://toothwalker.org/optics/flare/ufo.jpg
 
As it's red, it may be a reflection off the sensor forward, then reflected back off a lens element. It's one of the reasons lenses made for Digital cameras have additional anti-reflection coatings on the rear elements.
 
Red Support said that it may be a "combination of the lens rear element and the OLPF", just like you said Eric. They told me that they will investigate further.

This leads me to the BIG question. Is it possible to get additional anti-reflection coatings on the rear elements? I'd like to find a place that does this. I abhor these reflections. And also, I am wondering why my 16mm and 50mm are not showing these same reflections? Do they have "stronger" coating than the other three lenses?
 
Anyone know a place that puts more anti-reflective coating on the rear element of lenses? There has to be a place.
 
Charles Angus said:
I can't imagine that it would be cheap to retrofit coatings onto old lenses.

Call Zeiss maybe? If they can't do it, maybe they could point you in the right direction.
Click to expand...

After some research, I found a place that re-coats lenses. They are called Ultraflat in Los Angeles. I didn't get an exact quote but to coat the rear element would cost a very affordable price---much less than I was expecting.

I am not sure that this is the problem. The problem might go much deeper than the lenses themselves.

I would see if anyone experienced this problem and had a way of fixing it. Anybody?
 
Larry McKee said:
I had never thought about focusing on a flare. (I've only been creating images for 30 years or so... I'm still learning.) I had to try it. I set up a light about 6 1/2 feet away from the camera. The flare came into focus at about 10 feet.

At some point, on some project, that effect will come in handy.
Click to expand...

Hey Larry,

Which lens did you use to create the same effect? I am wondering if this kind of thing happens with a lot of lenses.

David
 
OK, maybe this is more common that I thought, and occurs with film cameras as well as digital.

I am watching the first scene of "La Vie en Rose", and about 1:17 minutes into it, you see a mirror flare of a candle for a half a second, not unlike the one that I shot.

It is very clear that it is an upside down candle flame. Perhaps they were using filters in front of the lens that reflected? I guess that I will most likely find these "mirror flares" all over movies, I just have to look for them.
 
David Cho said:
OK, maybe this is more common that I thought, and occurs with film cameras as well as digital.

I am watching the first scene of "La Vie en Rose", and about 1:17 minutes into it, you see a mirror flare of a candle for a half a second, not unlike the one that I shot.

It is very clear that it is an upside down candle flame. Perhaps they were using filters in front of the lens that reflected? I guess that I will most likely find these "mirror flares" all over movies, I just have to look for them.
Click to expand...

Adding more AR on the OLPF has a negative impact on the IR cut performance. We continue to try to find improvements in the IR/OLPF though.

Two examples from apocalypse now with backreflections off the film and rear element:
Apocalypse_Now_Complete_Dossier_10718.jpg
apocalypse_now2.jpg
 
It's a definately a ghost image between lens and sensor cover glass (or sensor itself)
 
David Cho said:
OK, maybe this is more common that I thought, and occurs with film cameras as well as digital.
Click to expand...

It used to be pretty common with film before anti-halation backing was added.

It's light bouncing off the sensor or the protective glass of the sensor (or off a film gate), then reflecting again off the back of a lens element.

If you can dim the light source, or hit it with streaks'n'tips, that could help a bit, or at least make it less distracting.
 
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