Michael Bravin Charged with email hacking!

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Arri itself on gizmodo's entry:

«This is an absolutely wrong statement and I request that this article will be retracted or corrected.

Our company ARRI is not, and has never been part of the investigation. Michael Bravin acted alone and on his own initiative.

Yeah, right.

In my world... it was your guy, on your watch, on your dime, so you man up and take some responsibility.

And you open up and show what he learned, and who he told it to... before a court orders you to do so.

Mike

 

[Nick Gardner]

Edited due to miscommunication.

 

[Paul Nordin]

Nick, I appreciate your sentiment, but it seems a bit naieve. At the highest levels of any competitive business advance info of your competitor's strategy is very very valuable. Of course its what you do with that information that matters. Regardless of whether or not Arri "used" that info, they had that info, and around that time they released Alexa. I don't know about your market, but here in SF, a LOT more commercials get shot on Alexa than on Red Ones or Epics. You don't have to believe in thier philosophy to acknowledge their success. They hit all the right marketing points and hit a home run with Alexa. If Bravin had zero role in that, great for them. If he did though...

 

[Jeff Coatney]

My point is everyone here is taking a serious but relatively minor criminal offense: reading your ex-boss's email. And extracting pretty grand conspiracy theories. Now, maybe this was a master plan hatched by Arri to get the goods on RED and Sony but... I just don't see such Machiavellian intentions or even a way to profit.

Gavin, this is a federal interstate commerce conviction. The fact is: there is no way for anyone to quantify the damages and I suspect that the damage award is a statutory one that is connected to the sentencing guidelines for the plea deal. Like it or not, Arri's tit is definitely in the wringer here as summarized by Fireman Mike. This is the essence of Machiavellian intention- there is no way to spin it otherwise and remain plausible. Michael did not plead "no contest" to these charges- its a full-on "guilty" plea. The profit motive can work in many ways in a scenario such as this:

EXAMPLE A: Subject goes from company A to company B by promising to bring with him trade secret or confidential IP as a quid-pro-quo condition of employment.

EXAMPLE B: Subject claims to have authored IP or trade secrets at company A and uses this ruse as an enticement to solicit employment at Company B.

EXAMPLE C: Subject gathers IP and trade secret info from both Company A and Company B in order to sell to third party or parties.

EXAMPLE D: Subject uses secret knowledge obtained illegally to increase the appearance of effectiveness at Company B for the purpose of advancing in pay or stature and/or discrediting emerging rival coworkers.

That's only a few of the myriad ways one could profit from this crime.

I'm not even entirely sure how much Arri could gain from reading the correspondances between Mr Band and various companies. In the plea Band Pro claimed "At least $5k in damages". That's not exactly a hard hitting penalty. And let's not forget that Bravin worked for Band Pro for 15 years and then spied on his former employer for 6 months. How much could he have possibly gleaned from 6 months that he hadn't already been privy to 6 months prior?

You are forgetting that there are many others involved here. Its not what Michael had direct first-hand knowledge of that is the most damaging. Its the potential for widespread trade secret or IP leaks of third party players that is the most likely source of damage.

I would think Jim has a pretty good idea of what that could be, hence his understandable distress in the matter.

My impression was that Michael was mostly in a marketing and sales position at Arri. Even if there was technical information in emails how would that have benefited him? And Alexa was probably 90% finished by the time he joined, so it's not like he was feeding design ideas. It's unfair to all of the engineers and hundreds of upright employees of ARRI to discredit all of their work because of one bad apple.

The plea deal suggests that there could be more bad fruit on the vine. I hope this is not the case. Time will tell.

I still stick by my old view. Guy quits and for 6 months reads his ex-boss's email and then stops. Sounds more like a stalkery ex-boyfriend than someone methodically trying to steal trade secrets. But who knows... (Nobody knows yet) so I like to give people the benefit of the doubt before decrying them an evil genius bent on world domination.

Then again this is REDUser where forgetting to mention RED in any news article on the film industry "means the author is clearly being bribed by Sony to cover-up the redvolution" so I'm actually surprised by the subdued nature of the response to a real conspiracy haha.

Unfortunately we are talking about an industrial "girlfriend" worth hundreds of millions of dollars in potentially lost R&D, development, patent licenses, market share, revenue, and God knows what else. Federal Attorneys rarely devote this much attention to "stalkery boyfriends".

It was stolen. Probably because it was big, shiny and expensive looking.

Maybe, but the technology at the core of these imaging systems are the envy of foreign intelligence services, industrial spies, greedy competitors and anyone else who can detect their value and access a market for it. It could be a corporate rival, an enemy of the United States, or some other entity seeking to gain a competitive edge in high technology. Its not the camera that's valuable to such groups, but careful study of the components: the sensor, the asic, the heat management system that could be at the heart of why someone would risk to acquire it. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it must be considered a possibility and not dismissed out-of-hand because it seems at first glance to be far-fetched.

 

[Scott Crawley]

It's a huge leap to go from illegally reading someone else's email to hiring alpine ninjas to break into a secluded mountain cabin.

It was stolen. Probably because it was big, shiny and expensive looking.

So was it ninjas hired for an elaborate heist, or common thieves who happened to get really lucky and snag a valuable prototype in a totally random smash and grab?

It sounds like you are working both sides of the street.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

You know I think he could be The Guy.

Now, we find the Other Guys....


Now it's REALLY starting to sound like a movie. Hehe

 

[Chip G]

Now, we find the Other Guys....


Now it's REALLY starting to sound like a movie. Hehe

Anyone green light the Pellicano movie idea? I dunno, last I checked no, I can see a 30 min cable or youtube tv show about anthony but this guy? It would have to be a 20 sec news reel hot hot girls in it shot very well for anyone outside of the camera industry to give a shit, 99.999999% of the world would't really care, they are more upset about their credit cards being fraudulently used.

My emails have been hacked so many times I just gave up and use Chip for my p/w, it scares those trying to be devious and forces them into paranoia, it's so simple that they end up thinking I'm F'ing with them and all the emails are planted / irrelevant.

Hey Joseph, wasn't your email hacked too? I thought I got one from you asking for bail / hooker money? That's when something was wrong

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Hey Joseph, wasn't your email hacked too? I thought I got one from you asking for bail / hooker money? That's when something was wrong

yes, my email was hacked. VERY frustrating. Every email/contact from 2008-Aug 2011 was deleted forever.

Also, everyone in my contact list was emailed, saying I needed money wired to a place in England.

On the little bright side, I had SO many people text/email/call/FB message me to make sure I was all right.

 

[Chip G]

yes, my email was hacked. VERY frustrating. Every email/contact from 2008-Aug 2011 was deleted forever.

Also, everyone in my contact list was emailed, saying I needed money wired to a place in England.

On the little bright side, I had SO many people text/email/call/FB message me to make sure I was all right.

I tried to help out but my credit card was declined, I'm sure it was from the nigerians that emailed me 30 minutes before

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

So was it ninjas hired for an elaborate heist, or common thieves who happened to get really lucky and snag a valuable prototype in a totally random smash and grab? It sounds like you are working both sides of the street.

If it was just a random smash and grab they took it because it was shiny and electronic. If Michael Bravin hired them, they were alpine ninjas in an elaborate heist involving helicopters and submarines (little known fact, Michael Bravin is not only a world class hacker, he's also a criminal mastermind who organizes international jewel heists). <- The degree of sarcasm I allot to each of the two possible scenarios should should be a clue as to which I personally think is plausible.

By the way I'm not sure why my writing style seems to be the focus of so much animosity in this thread not my actual opinions haha. I'll try to be more dry and dull if that makes everyone feel better going forward.

And like I said, I think a lot of people are forgetting that Michael Bravin didn't design or engineer Alexa, he came in after it was done to sell it. So even if Band had the blueprints to Epic in his inbox it wouldn't have done ARRI any good. And the Alexa was *out* before the first Epic was stolen... so again... wouldn't have done him any good.

I don't feel like an entire company deserves to be dragged through the mud just because one employee read his ex-employer's emails. I'm sure there are a lot of really good engineers at ARRI who don't deserve to have their legitimately excellent work (done completely independent of their marketing director and before he was hired) sullied with crazy conspiracy theories.

 

[Jake Bastian]

And the Alexa was *out* before the first Epic was stolen... so again... wouldn't have done him any good.

What about the RED One prototypes back in '06?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

What about the RED One prototypes back in '06?

You mean when he was working for Band Pro? Is Michael Bravin now also a time traveling criminal mastermind? This is what I mean when I say that it's a mistake to attribute every evil in the world to one person. Next we're going to be blaming Michael Bravin for the droughts in Texas.

 

[Stephen Williams]

What about the RED One prototypes back in '06?

Michael had an early serial no RED approx 54 IIRC

 

[Tom Gough]

Gavin please read Jim's posts in this thread:

My attorney informed me that my personal emails were apparently hacked. Unfortunately, this will get messy. Not what anyone would vote for. Certainly not me.

Jim

This situation hits me hard on many levels...

One of the companies I held in the highest esteem now has left me shattered.

The magnitude of the betrayal is really hard to comprehend.

The situation forces a reaction that I never would have considered a possibility.

I am devastated. Given the facts, it is not likely I will sleep for a month.

Jim

I am slowly turning from sad to wicked pissed off. The level of breach is truly unprecedented in this industry. There is a certain expectation of professional (and legal) boundaries. Apparently, these lines have been crossed, with full intent, for an unfair business advantage of epic proportions.

There are several companies involved (victims). We are not alone. I would not expect this situation to disappear into the night. Not on my watch.

Jim

After spending another 10 minutes on the phone with my attorney... this is just about as bad as anyone could ever imagine.

This is the stuff movies are made of... really hard to believe.

Jim

It's funny that you criticise others for speculating by speculating yourself:

...My point is everyone here is taking a serious but relatively minor criminal offense: reading your ex-boss's email. And extracting pretty grand conspiracy theories...

...I still stick by my old view. Guy quits and for 6 months reads his ex-boss's email and then stops. Sounds more like a stalkery ex-boyfriend than someone methodically trying to steal trade secrets...

Going by Jim's posts this is way more serious than some drunken loser sitting in front of a computer in his underpants on a Saturday night stalking his ex-employer just to find out what he's up to!

EDIT: I didn't mean to call anyone sitting in front of a PC in his underpants a loser just the stalking the ex-employer part

Anyway, I hope that it all works out for Jim and the RED team.

All the best,

 

[Prince Anthony]

Urgh. Sorry to hear that Jim.

Deadline.com apparently picked up the story, too: http://www.deadline.com/2011/09/ind...ty-to-hacking-rival-band-pro-while-with-arri/

Let's not debate this on a forum dedicated to and for RED and it's users/products. Let's keep it clean and sober.

Well, being informed and for that matter learning about someone in this forum is important...though I dont have a worthy e-mail to be hacked, it sure tells a lot about cyber criminals and espionage, imagine what negative impact "God forbid" it will have on the RED camera production process if that crazy dude or anyone had gotten access to critical info for red competitors?

 

[Scott Crawley]

I have no animosity for you or your writing style. Heck I even enjoy the sarcasm. One thing that is abundantly clear to me is that sarcasm does not lend itself to clear communication, particularly in print. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't know what Bravin did, and I agree with you that it is unfair to him and Arri to openly speculate. However there have been indications that there is more here than the misdemeanor charge that we read about. Time will tell.

I don't find it plausible that the theft of a prototype was a random event. It is possible but suspicion is warranted. I don't think that it was brought up here to suggest that Bravin was behind it, rather that the two may share a common motive. Those who would connect Bravin to the theft in public at this point would be wise to exercise more caution.

Those are my thoughts for what they are worth.

Cheers,
Scott

If it was just a random smash and grab they took it because it was shiny and electronic. If Michael Bravin hired them, they were alpine ninjas in an elaborate heist involving helicopters and submarines (little known fact, Michael Bravin is not only a world class hacker, he's also a criminal mastermind who organizes international jewel heists). <- The degree of sarcasm I allot to each of the two possible scenarios should should be a clue as to which I personally think is plausible.

By the way I'm not sure why my writing style seems to be the focus of so much animosity in this thread not my actual opinions haha. I'll try to be more dry and dull if that makes everyone feel better going forward.

And like I said, I think a lot of people are forgetting that Michael Bravin didn't design or engineer Alexa, he came in after it was done to sell it. So even if Band had the blueprints to Epic in his inbox it wouldn't have done ARRI any good. And the Alexa was *out* before the first Epic was stolen... so again... wouldn't have done him any good.

I don't feel like an entire company deserves to be dragged through the mud just because one employee read his ex-employer's emails. I'm sure there are a lot of really good engineers at ARRI who don't deserve to have their legitimately excellent work (done completely independent of their marketing director and before he was hired) sullied with crazy conspiracy theories.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

... I don't feel like an entire company deserves to be dragged through the mud just because one employee read his ex-employer's emails. I'm sure there are a lot of really good engineers at ARRI who don't deserve to have their legitimately excellent work (done completely independent of their marketing director and before he was hired) sullied with crazy conspiracy theories.

Agreed...

That is why I said that I would be ready no questions ask to drop ARRI, if found guilty, but I don't speculate on anything and not on a company that I have been trusting for as many years as I can remember...

However, in all the businesses that I have owned, I had to take full responsibility for al actions taken by any of my employees at any time al the time, so some responsibility here is to be acknowledge at some point...

Besides all this, ARRI is not the only party involved, willingly or not, there are more then what it is shown here, so time needs to come to past in order for it to come to light, and see a bit better what had been going on.

 

[Nook Kim]

OMG.. I can't help but to think about Alexa-M's debut in such short time after Epic-M. Of course, this is just my stupid imagination or I hope so.

 

[Stephen Williams]

OMG.. I can't help but to think about Alexa-M's debut in such short time after Epic-M. Of course, this is just my stupid imagination or I hope so.

With 3D being such a big thing, it's not a huge surprise that Arri came out with a small camera head. Epic is clearly a better solution as it does not need to be tethered.

Edit in any case we all knew Epic would be small for a long time, I have photos from IBC 2 years ago, the brain looks identical to the one I own.

 

[Dave Blackham]

Has there been any comment from any german camera manufactuerer on this ? perhaps denying any involvment or otherwise or suggesting the blame lies with one individual acting alone ?

It makes me very sad that this has happened.