MEIZLER MODULE + Apple ProRes

[David Birdy]

Nice very nice... Modular makes me very happy!!!

 

[Karl H]

Jarred, is there any chance of Epic having the option to record Prores internally (as an alternative to r3d) without needing a proxy module?

Is Epic powerful enough to do this? People will think that's mad not recording to r3d, but in super low light the prores files should look better than the R3D counterparts, and we'd get longer recording times per mag when 2K is enough resolution. It'd be great to have the option if it's capable of doing it.

 

[Rocco Schult]

1. Can we view REDGAMMA 3 on the client monitors, touch screens, EVF etc.... but get RED LOG FILM or at least LOG C Pro res files out of the Meizler at the same time ?

2. 4444 is coming great !. Very happy about that, have you guys figured out how to get 120 FPS PRO RES... or do we have to get that from recording playback.

4. Will you consider 4k PRO RES output ?

5. Silly question but this will make a lot of people sit up holding there breath to hear your answer... Will you consider making and EPIC or SCARLET that shoots just PRO RES or DNXHD.

6….can you see real time 5k RAW editing coming any time soon.

The Meizler module is a flux compensator.
Multiple LUTs at 4K up to 120 fps, just a software update away.
The same software update brings a new menu entry, you can switch off RAW recording, save some power and it does ProRes6K up to 240 fps with full debayer, HDRx, 2 LUTs and records both of them.
When the work is done the next big thing is Epic PRxHD for half the price since the whole big bandwidth stuff is not needed anymore.
Unless of course most modern CPUs make a speed-jump by a factor of 6 surprisingly (for each layer you want to edit, you might want to dissolve in realtime too, so double that), then RED might think about not doing all of it.

I am really in a sarcastic mood today, but hey, seriously....

 

[Daniel S Williams]

There's really nothing Epic CAN'T do now. Red, thanks for listening to your customers and continuing to add new features like this, its almost overwhelming!

 

[Mark Pugh]

Jarred, is there any chance of Epic having the option to record Prores internally (as an alternative to r3d) without needing a proxy module?

Is Epic powerful enough to do this? People will think that's mad not recording to r3d, but in super low light the prores files should look better than the R3D counterparts, and we'd get longer recording times per mag when 2K is enough resolution. It'd be great to have the option if it's capable of doing it.

What you're suggesting is the only option that really kills the Alexa talk ( along with the Dragon) for any kind of shoot. Red is already supplying an "external recording only" option. There could be no philosophical / logical resistance to the notion of on-brain Prores, with off-speed frame rates as a bonus. I guess the big question is can the brain encode pro-res after scaling. I'd pay for any board upgrade required.

 

[Max M.]

What you're suggesting is the only option that really kills the Alexa talk ( along with the Dragon) for any kind of shoot. Red is already supplying an "external recording only" option. There could be no philosophical / logical resistance to the notion of on-brain Prores, with off-speed frame rates as a bonus. I guess the big question is can the brain encode pro-res after scaling. I'd pay for any board upgrade required.

Absolutely! I would be great that when we send the epic in for dragon, it could also for a little more price get the option for internal prores recording to the redmags, with even more high frame rates because of the lower data rates. This would give us all the options and make epic really versatile

 

[charles lim yi yong]

This module is begaining to look like a must.
i am just a little concerned with battery life. How much power does this module draw?

 

[Joseph Ward]

Absolutely! I would be great that when we send the epic in for dragon, it could also for a little more price get the option for internal prores recording to the redmags, with even more high frame rates because of the lower data rates. This would give us all the options and make epic really versatile

That would be great but I think it may take up more space, volume of the brain, and a higher price? Can Red do that? Or a better question will Red do that?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

As a collaegaue said:

Wow. There is the rest of the camera

 

[Karl H]

What you're suggesting is the only option that really kills the Alexa talk ( along with the Dragon) for any kind of shoot. Red is already supplying an "external recording only" option. There could be no philosophical / logical resistance to the notion of on-brain Prores, with off-speed frame rates as a bonus. I guess the big question is can the brain encode pro-res after scaling. I'd pay for any board upgrade required.

Yeh, the obvious answer seems to be if they have made a proxy module then the brain isn't capable of it; however the Meizler is doing so much more than recording a proxy; and of course it's recording R3D simultaneously on the brain.

Is the brain powerful enough to record prores if it isn't doing any of those things and not recording R3D either? Only Red know, but it does seem possible given how powerful Epic is. The original specs of the Red One included a roadmap of some form of included RGB codec, but as we know things change. So maybe it is technically possible.

As you say this would be a killer feature. The only philosophical resistance I see, is Red's 4K mantra. If they can give the option of recording prores 2K at the EXPENSE of 4K Redcode in the brain, then they might decide it's against their interests because it then becomes a 2K camera in this mode. They offer it now because it's advertised as an offline solution with your 4K masters still intact. Not as a replacement for them. The rumour is they are making a smaller proxy module, and my guess is they will stick to the philosophy above and it'll work the same way.

I see the reasoning, but I hope they give us the option IF it is possible.. There's many devices out there already that will record prores via HDMI. I've stayed clear in the hope Red will provide this feature onboard. If not, my guess is an atomos would be a cheaper, though clumsier solution than a future Red module.

 

[Jarred Land]

Brain cannot and will not record ProRes onboard. Not really a mantra but a philosophy. Our foundation is not only based on Resolution, but RAW as well, and we really feel strongly about it.

The good thing is.. if you disagree.. or whomever you are working for disagrees, you now have an option that as a complete package, is still smaller than the competition and does a whole shitload more... plus you get the best of both worlds.

 

[Karl H]

Brain cannot and will not record ProRes onboard. Not really a mantra but a philosophy. Our foundation is not only based on Resolution, but RAW as well, and we really feel strongly about it.

The good thing is.. if you disagree.. or whomever you are working for disagrees, you now have an option that as a complete package, is still smaller than the competition and does a whole shitload more... plus you get the best of both worlds.

done!

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Teague Kennedy]

Brain cannot and will not record ProRes onboard. Not really a mantra but a philosophy. Our foundation is not only based on Resolution, but RAW as well, and we really feel strongly about it.

The good thing is.. if you disagree.. or whomever you are working for disagrees, you now have an option that as a complete package, is still smaller than the competition and does a whole shitload more... plus you get the best of both worlds.

Got it. BUT. If you sold a smaller module with that as it's only capability and a price around $2000-3000 would you sell a crap load of them? (and perhaps make a lot of money?) I know you would sell one to me and I doubt I'm the only one.

 

[Andrea Scaglione]

Got it. BUT. If you sold a smaller module with that as it's only capability and a price around $2000-3000 would you sell a crap load of them? (and perhaps make a lot of money?) I know you would sell one to me and I doubt I'm the only one.

+1 :yesnod:

 

[Bob Gundu]

Got it. BUT. If you sold a smaller module with that as it's only capability and a price around $2000-3000 would you sell a crap load of them? (and perhaps make a lot of money?) I know you would sell one to me and I doubt I'm the only one.

I'm pretty confident it's coming. For now there are a few options with third party recorders. It's already been hinted that a smaller proxy recorder is on the table.

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

Brain cannot and will not record ProRes onboard. Not really a mantra but a philosophy. Our foundation is not only based on Resolution, but RAW as well, and we really feel strongly about it.

The good thing is.. if you disagree.. or whomever you are working for disagrees, you now have an option that as a complete package, is still smaller than the competition and does a whole shitload more... plus you get the best of both worlds.

hi jarred ,

as a philosophy i strongly suggest to remove any codec options above 5:1 , i receive tons of footage shot at 10:1 , that looks like crap when compared to 5: 3:1 or 5:1 ,
the noise structure is quite worse when start hitting 6:1 ...

g

 

[Mark Pugh]

Brain cannot and will not record ProRes onboard. Not really a mantra but a philosophy. Our foundation is not only based on Resolution, but RAW as well, and we really feel strongly about it.

The good thing is.. if you disagree.. or whomever you are working for disagrees, you now have an option that as a complete package, is still smaller than the competition and does a whole shitload more... plus you get the best of both worlds.

Jarred, seeing as "External REC only" (with no R3D being recorded), is implemented right now, presumably fitting within the philosophy,
... well I just can't see any philosophical difference between that, and enabling Prores recording on the brain, thereby enabling recording off-speed Prores.
If you made on-board Prores limited to LOG and 5000k only, how could that be more against philosophy than "External REC only"?

 

[Karl H]

Jarred, seeing as "External REC only" (with no R3D being recorded), is implemented right now, presumably fitting within the philosophy,
... well I just can't see any philosophical difference between that, and enabling Prores recording on the brain, thereby enabling recording off-speed Prores.
If you made on-board Prores limited to LOG and 5000k only, how could that be more against philosophy than "External REC only"?

I guess the difference is they have no control over external recording. You can pipe HDMI to anything, any codec, on any machine that accepts the input; but that doesn't mean they endorse that way of working. Offering prores as an offline whilst also recording R3D fits with their philosophy, but offering 2K prores as a master format doesn't.

While I don't agree with that philosophy (the more options the better IMO)..... I guess they have to stick to what they believe in. If Epic can record 5K R3D and also scale 5k to 2K and throw it out of the HDMI at the same time, you'd imagine it is capable of recording that signal too if it wasn't recording the R3D. Prores is nowhere near as taxing as 5K R3D to encode; but clearly they have laid out their position. It's their company.

For the record, the main reasons I want a prores option are for low light recordings (ISO 2000 and above) RGB looks better than Epic RAW in these conditions. The other reason is many projects I shoot are designed for the web or company internal comms, whose shelf life is 1 year at most; then they are never seen again. 5K is overkill and my 64GB SSD's would go a lot further downscaled.

I just don't want to have to pay thousands for it. Maybe a ninja is the way to go.... bit clumsy.

 

[Scott Brown]

At present 100% of our deliverables are full HD 1080 25p where 4K means nothing. This will change in the future but for now this is where we're at and I would guess where a large percentage of RED users are at.

What would be a game changer for us is a full HD 1080p Redcode raw codec option that preserves the 4k/5K shallow DOF but will allow much longer record times on the RED Mags. I cannot believe this would be hard for RED to add and it would make a world of a difference to us.

I've been using C300's alongside our Epic recently and god what a joy in terms of usability and workflow and storage compared to RED. The other BIG factor is that our clients simply cannot tell the difference when we show them both side by side.

The Meissler module looks great but for us, it's simply overkill and way too expensive - we could buy a C300 for this price!

Best wishes

Scott

 

[Scott Brown]

Just spoke with RED Europe and it does look like a smaller, lower cost module is in the works - eta early 2013 but please god sooner if possible! RED are listening.

Scott