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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

MEIZLER MODULE + Apple ProRes

It does seem funny that Sony will be charging $6k for 4k recording, while RED is charging $13k for 1080p...

:001_tt2:

I know the MM does much more than proxy recording, but I would buy the shit out of a Toia Module!
 
I think you missed the point, Brett. I want a much smaller package with many fewer capabilities at a much reduced price. And I think it will sell like freaking hot cakes.
 
IMG_1219.JPG


Do you think this is the right way to store files in ApplePro RES? I do not think so. Jannard, Land you ask me why this greenback work on all the football Serie A teams is not given to my client, SKY, in files .r3D? It 's simple, SKY has difficulty working those files. In an ideal world this should not happen. In the future, also a giant as SKY will learn to work as RAW files. But in the future we will all be dead, or at least we will all changed camera ... So if today also a giant like SKY is not capable to work with files RAW .r3D, RED is dead wrong if it does not offer a way to record in Apple ProRes that does not cost like a Sony F5 ....

Jannard, Land, because you make us do work under these conditions!

Andrea
 
Andrea Scaglione said:
IMG_1219.JPG


Do you think this is the right way to store files in ApplePro RES? I do not think so. Jannard, Land you ask me why this greenback work on all the football Serie A teams is not given to my client, SKY, in files .r3D? It 's simple, SKY has difficulty working those files. In an ideal world this should not happen. In the future, also a giant as SKY will learn to work as RAW files. But in the future we will all be dead, or at least we will all changed camera ... So if today also a giant like SKY is not capable to work with files RAW .r3D, RED is dead wrong if it does not offer a way to record in Apple ProRes that does not cost like a Sony F5 ....

Jannard, Land, because you make us do work under these conditions!

Andrea
Click to expand...


I would have to disagree with you Andrea. I have worked with SKY Sports over the past year on a few jobs and all they wanted was the .R3D's... We made them some Proxie Pro Rez files for viewing but they worked with the .R3D's for the Edit. These were for their Idents and were produced in house at SKY. My experience has been different than yours I guess.

But I am wondering about how you are mounting your rig on its side? It almost looks like you have bolted your wedge plate onto the side ssd...But that cant be..

Thanks Taylor
 
Taylor Morrison said:
I would have to disagree with you Andrea. I have worked with SKY Sports over the past year on a few jobs and all they wanted was the .R3D's... We made them some Proxie Pro Rez files for viewing but they worked with the .R3D's for the Edit. These were for their Idents and were produced in house at SKY. My experience has been different than yours I guess.

But I am wondering about how you are mounting your rig on its side? It almost looks like you have bolted your wedge plate onto the side ssd...But that cant be..

Thanks Taylor
Click to expand...

That's right I put my wedge plate with the screw inserted into the SSD. Jim Jannard himself built the SSD modified in this way just to make me work better.
No joking aside, there is a rib x between the plate and the SSD Module. We need to have shot more positive players (are taller than they are wide)

I am pleased that people SKY SPORT U.S. wants files .r3D The point is that not all of them want to, I give them the two formats, RAW and ProRes and they use ProRes: you have to believe me Taylor. I only ask have the possibility to choose a format easier to handle. Even Alexa and the new Sony, all they can do both RAW that ProRes (or similar). I would love to come and work for SKY SPORT in NYC or that in Europe was using R3D files: however, this is not a choice that we can have us. So giving at a reasonable cost, the possibility of multiple formats to our customer would simply be the most reasonable thing to do.

Andrea
 
Andrea,
Actually I'm working for SKY in London. I shoot for them when they come stateside for these projects. But I do agree with you on having the choice. I am sure given the option I could generate more interest in using my Epic if I had a module that could generate a prorez or DNxHD file. But it would have to be able to capture the overcranked footage directly from the camera. I shoot a lot of Slomo and not being able to capture 120fps to the codec directly would be a problem.

I would be interested in a shot of your "rib x" as I need to shoot 90 degrees as well and the R90 thingy from red is a bit overkill for me to travel with.

Thanks
Taylor
 
Karl H said:
Would you like some Kool-aid to go with your Kool-aid?

Examples have been sighted where recording 2K RGB will produce BETTER images than redcode raw, and they are 5X smaller too..... high ISO and slo-mo being the main. The argument isn't just for workflow ease of 2K, there are many benefits to have the option. I don't have any high ISO on hand to show you, but have a look at this 5K slo-mo frame my Epic produced at ISO800 using Redcode RAW, and tell me this is all we need :

http://www.darklineonline.co.uk/uploads/5k120test.jpg

I don't give a crap that I can still change the white balance of the above image in post, or care that I've got a full 5K image of mush. The shot is useless. Even scaled to 2K it's unacceptable. It looks like a 1st generation cinepak file.

No, for some crazy reason I'd rather have recorded a clean, 2K RGB scaled image on board instead of this 5K one. ... I must be nuts right? In this situation, recording full 5K raw is actually detrimental to the quality of the image. Yes faster SSD's and larger file sizes will go some way to solve this problem. But why not offer us another way to get good results right now at 2K? As sensor resolution increases it's inevitable that manufacturers will offer many scaled options internally for recording. Shoot the resolution you need. Red just don't seem to be getting that.

Did you know that so far sending slo-mo to the proxy module involves playing back the R3D and recording it? Thereby copying the artifacts introduced by redcode over to the prores file?

This is not the Red user base crying out for inferiority as your metaphor seems to suggest. Its about us spotting where options and alternatives would actually give better results. Trust me, in low light you're much better off with an RGB recording post ISO 2000 than you are with R3D post processed to the same ISO... An internal 2K RGB codec would solve many problems for sure. It does no harm that 2K RGB files are smaller too and less processor taxing, which is a whole other reason as to why people want the option.

If you've never experienced these situations in your Epic, then good for you. It does not mean however that you're right, or they don't exist. Jarred's comment suggests he agrees with you, but you know I'll say this. Red started up because they didn't feel the consumer was getting what they wanted or companies were listening to consumers. On this topic they are doing similar. Having a 2K RGB internal option wont actually make the camera any worse, but it sure will make Epic more flexible and even better in the situations I mention. Red didn't say "were not offering you 300fps slo-mo because it's only 2K and thats not good enough" . 2K windowed slo-mo whose effective resolution is way under 2K is fine, even lower resolutions are offered.....but they refuse to offer 2K scaled normal shooting when it's clear there are advantages to it, whether in size, post workflow, or even producing artifact free images in some cases over redcode.

Let me ask you a question, if Epic's new sensor in 2016 shot 16K and the only recording option was 16K RAW, would you say 'yeeeeaaahhh lets burn through 1TB/second baby', or would you think that offering other scaled recording modes too would actually be a reasonable option for those who don't need 16K all the time, every time. It's inevitable that as sensor resolution increases, manufacturers will offer many different options for scaled recording internally.
Click to expand...


+1 on this
 
Taylor Morrison said:
it would have to be able to capture the overcranked footage directly from the camera. I shoot a lot of Slomo and not being able to capture 120fps to the codec directly would be a problem.
Taylor
Click to expand...

Yes it would to be able to capture at least 60fps better 120fps 60p of course

As for the Rib x let's take a look at your PM the x is a "moderated" brand ah what a democracy in this forum : )
 
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