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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

May Update... The month of Raven

Josh Becker said:
Yeah, some dealers have been able to fulfill, but we haven't heard of a lot. The main point was just that the only people RED has shipped Scarlet-Ws to are people who switched from RAVEN. No day 1 orders, no Scarlet Dragon upgrades. This might seem minor but it adds to the frustration because there was absolutely no mention of RAVEN switcher priority on Dec 10 (with a March ship date) when myself and many others placed our orders. So we already had to deal with the reality that a ton of people were going to be allocated ahead of us, and just when I'd thought "well, they are almost done. Hopefully they'll be onto us next. The worst is over!" suddenly this post pops up and is literally a guaranteed one month halt of fulfillment. Just when we were thought we were on the cusp of being allocated. In a way, it kind of does feel like I got trick-fucked.
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I remembered seeing the stuff about Raven switchers before I put in my deposit, so I don't feel like I've been trick-fucked, just fucked... mainly because it seems that the estimates regarding fulfillment have been overly optimistic. And before NAB we were getting updates indicating that the switchers would be caught up by NAB or thereabouts, and after that, silence... nothing indicating whether or not they'd actually succeeded in catching up on switchers for two weeks, and then a one-month halt, just as they were supposedly ramping up Raven and starting on outright orders.

My rep got back to me yesterday and said he'd try to arrange a loaner for me if I have a shoot coming up... the catch is that the next major shoot I have is starting in mid-June, and their allocation pace doesn't fill me with confidence that they'll get to mine by then, even though it sounds like the loaners won't still be available then :-/
 
Rakesh Malik said:
I remembered seeing the stuff about Raven switchers before I put in my deposit, so I don't feel like I've been trick-fucked, just fucked... mainly because it seems that the estimates regarding fulfillment have been overly optimistic. And before NAB we were getting updates indicating that the switchers would be caught up by NAB or thereabouts, and after that, silence... nothing indicating whether or not they'd actually succeeded in catching up on switchers for two weeks, and then a one-month halt, just as they were supposedly ramping up Raven and starting on outright orders.

My rep got back to me yesterday and said he'd try to arrange a loaner for me if I have a shoot coming up... the catch is that the next major shoot I have is starting in mid-June, and their allocation pace doesn't fill me with confidence that they'll get to mine by then, even though it sounds like the loaners won't still be available then :-/
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Rakesh, Let us know if we can be of any assistance once shoots do start getting closer. I am sure your BombSquad rep will do everything within their power to snag a loaner for you, but if for whatever reason there aren't any available, we are also offering up our support. With all that being said, I hope you get your own camera before your next shoot!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-backup-option-for-delayed-camera-allocations
 
Brent@RED said:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?139076-Announcing-Scarlet-W&p=1572940&viewfull=1#post1572940

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?139076-Announcing-Scarlet-W&p=1572941&viewfull=1#post1572941
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ah, you're right (like usual!). I originally saw the announcement on Jarred's Facebook page, I just immediately clicked the link to the store and preordered. In the store is where I saw mention of Scarlet-Dragon priority as well as the estimated ship date. I hadn't gone into the forum at that point. It's just kind of a big element that was tucked away into a couple messages on the forum.

And part of the sting is seeing a bunch of people get cameras and then receiving news of a halt right before we were getting close to getting ours. But I know you guys need to focus on RAVEN, too. Tough decisions to make, because you're going to upset people on either side.

Thanks again for the quick responses and for putting up with people like me bitching on the forum. Even though I'm venting and it's probably an annoyance for you guys, I do appreciate actually having criticism heard and responded to. You're a saint, Brent! I hope I haven't been permanently put on your shit list!
 
Gene Sung said:
Since this thread is pretty brutal, I wanted to share a positive experience.

Had my S-W for almost 2 weeks now and I really like the camera - lovely images and really well thought out in terms of menu and design.

Obviously having Jarred and Brent on here is huge, but just as cool are the other people working for Red. Brittany and Luke at Red Hollywood are super helpful. My rep Clark is great as well. Went to the free S-W / Raven workshop and had all my questions on Black Shade and exposure answered by Luke. He’s super knowledgable and it’s a huge resource to be able to walk into the store or call, and pick his brain. Coming from Sony and Canon, it's nice to have real humans behind the product and not just a call center in a 3rd world country.

Incidentally, I (re)met Jordan Levy at the S-W / Raven workshop last night who finally got his Raven yesterday. STOKED for him! Did not make the connection until I saw Jordan’s face again, but I shot under him about a year ago. Jordan is an amazing DP who works on top-shelf, A-list projects. We can all learn tons from him and psyched to hear about his thoughts on Raven.

Sucks that many of you are stuck waiting, but I know Red is trying their hardest. I think the actual demand for the cameras caught them off guard. I guess when you drop the entry price, the flood gates open.
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Thank you Gene for the kind words! It was great catching up with you again and hopefully i can find us something to work on together again, good to know you have your camera too!so, wow, this thread! it looks that all my questions and complaining will soon be forgotten!
I also want to sing some praise and love for the RED team. I also have clark as my rep and though i never met him i pretty much consider him a friend now and he is really on top of it and has always been able to answer my questions and gets back to me very promptly, as well seemed generally excited for me when i got allocated. I also stayed in the red store for about 4 hours yesterday building and testing my camera before the seminar and also want to say all the reps were beyond amazing, where else can you get that much hands on tech help with a camera you buy? so a thank you to Luke and Jamie for all their tips and knowledge and Brit for her outstanding customer appreciation and attitude. As well, prior to today ive also came in and did tests with Kelly who was so incredibly helpful and cordial to all my needs, she is amazing.
I also met a lot of other fantastic and enthusiastic redusers, so im glad i went. it was a little different then i thought so im glad i went in early and got private hands on tutoring. it was more of a sales forum then a hands on technical program. for me it brings me back to my first film 25 years ago as a camera PA and the camera dept teaching me how to load film. i have been shooting for a couple of decades now, RED since the very very beginning when Dino would bring his redone body and we'd have to outfit it from keslow camera, though i never had to use a RED camera without my team of AC's, but now that i am getting really into the tech and options you have in the system(things i never have time for on set) i think i will be bettering myself as a DP as well. Always learning, it never stops!
My Raven is #184, ordered sept 24th 9:47pm. i plan to post pictures of setups, and get it into the professional field asap. right now my only worry is if the files can be dealt with in post yet. i need these raw files to be able to be handled! i guess there is no problem with weapon in premiere but only scarlet and raven? that's what im getting from the information gathered. though ill never be dealing with my own post, id love to be able to shoot with confidence.

so what's the work around, transcode in redcinex for editing? and then does that match back up with r3ds in divinci? divinci can read them right, it's just editing programs that cant? any info is helpful so i can let post producers know and have the dit properly prep the files.
Thanks everyone for dealing with my frustrations and you guys going through it now, yes it pays off!
Thank you RED team, you got another one in your corner.
 
I have a Raven on pre-order (early Feb) so it will be forever before it is ready, but it is for personal use. And at the office here we have a Weapon MG, so in a sense it makes it easy for me to talk (even though I need to send it in today because of a hardware error). But I really want to emphasize that RED (specifically Jarred and Brent) doesn't have to give us updates, or have executives answer questions. But they choose to do it. It is easy to be cynical and call it a form of marketing (which it is). But at least it is the right kind of marketing that engages their customers.

Giving loaners? That is crazy. Who does that? Risking bad PR and telegraphing their production plans to their competitors? That's crazy. These updates make no "sense" from a traditional business perspective. Believe me, I'd love to have that Raven in my hands and start advertising it. But we will all run faster together - and not by tearing each other apart.

For those of you who are new to RED. Welcome, I totally understand your frustration. Innovation causes craziness and unpredictability. That is the nature of the beast. You have to make a decision regarding the character of your business. If you want to be cutting-freakin'-edge, then you will be in for a wild and unpredictable ride in each area of your business that you choose to operate that way. Maybe it is with your software, or building a custom computer, or making some crazy rig. But if you go cutting-edge, and make promises to clients. You better have a solid backup plan, and charge a premium for being cutting-edge so you can finance that backup plan. Don't go without a net. If unpredictability is unacceptable for your business model—don't play at the bleeding edge, use products and processes that have been out for awhile and market your business as reliable and professional, but not bleeding-edge.

So sell your clients on the advantages of cutting edge, but don't demand that RED pays the price if you were irresponsible and made promises that were outside of your ability to keep...and you didn't at least have the decency to lay out a backup plan for your client. If we do that, then the biggest customer service failing is on our part.

Anyway, I don't mean to be preachy, but I appreciate the effort that goes into giving us updates. And I don't want the guys to just say "forget this" it isn't worth it, because every time they are just going to get abused in the forums. Just couple frustration with gratitude and let's not make promises about things outside of our control, if we do, then we should own up to it and do what we can to compensate our clients for their inconvenience. I feel that's exactly what RED is doing with loaners, and I don't think they've been given enough credit for that—so thanks to the team at RED...but please, consider giving reps a heads up before doing those midnight postings that announce major shifts. I think that would go along way to shoring up some of the issues we've seen here.

Rant done. Thanks for reading if you got this far.
 
Carlos Quintero said:
I'm not sure this is entirely accurate. I ordered from AbleCine and have not received my Scarlet-W yet.
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I think you misread. Saying everyone who has so far received them and not been a switcher ordered from a deale is not the same as saying everyone who ordered from dealers has gotten theirs. Two very different statements.
 
Brian B said:
Rakesh, Let us know if we can be of any assistance once shoots do start getting closer. I am sure your BombSquad rep will do everything within their power to snag a loaner for you, but if for whatever reason there aren't any available, we are also offering up our support. With all that being said, I hope you get your own camera before your next shoot!

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-backup-option-for-delayed-camera-allocations
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Much appreciated! Sorry I didn't get a chance to stop by your booth and say hello at NAB... there was just too much going on :)
 
Jason Bodnar said:
I ordered a RAVEN package within the first hour and did think about switching but stuck with RAVEN as it will get me by until I pick up a WEAPON later this year. I am not a patient person at all but I know I am going to end up with a solid little beast of a camera and one of the draws to RED besides the kick ass gear was the transparency of the team! Cheers to Jarred and Brent! I much appreciate the straight shooting communications and no BS responses. When you make a mistake you own up to it and if you can make it right you do. I have been buying gear for a long time and not many companies allow you to chat with the decision makers nor would they listen to your input and respond, let alone in the capacity RED does. I do understand the frustration of others but my advice is to keep yourself busy, write, take photos, film something with your phone, take a vacation, or take up meditation, if you can't continue to use a tool you do currently have (including your brain) to be creative. The time will fly by and you will get your allocation and the world will once again be right ;)
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Did you get allocated yet? I also pre-ordered Raven within the first 2-3 hours of the announcement at like 2 or 3 in the morning 9/25 and I havent been allocated yet so I'm curious how far into the list they are ? ?
 
mr5RN4z.png


For real though, both sides have some points but overall we're getting an amazing deal. Big thanks to Jarred, Brent, and the rest of the team for keeping us informed. Totally feel for all the people who were on the cusp and are now waiting...I've got a deep queue well ahead of me and another month probably won't bump me a whole lot. Hope everyone gets a speedy delivery!
 
Brent@RED said:
Adam, having a negative experience and providing that feedback is one thing. That is called constructive criticism. But if you go back and read your posts, it was not constructive - it was saying our reps are "full of it", people are "seemingly" helpful, and that the issue is a top-down one. I may not be at the very top, but I am someone who was willing to listen if it was beneficial to you and to RED.

You are saying the previous poster had a "headache" from his rep, which I pointed out was simply the rep giving the information accurately that they had at that time. Don't blame the rep if things changed after the fact, which that poster was doing. And you are citing this as evidence to condemn RED customer service.

I am happy to look at every rep you have been assigned, sure. But, if you are sold "one is worse than the next" and that looking at the past to help solve the future is something you don't have time for, I cannot help you. If you think you can get better technology blended with better customer service from another company, I wish you the best of luck. I am not saying that tongue in cheek or in a snarky way, I am just saying every person has the right to their opinion and their choices, and it sounds like yours is made. Me trying to sort it with you would be a waste of your time and mine.

I stand behind our customer service as industry-leading. My advice is to you, and anyone, is don't settle. If you think you are "settling" with RED, don't. But, just remember, RED lit the 4K fuse 10 years ago. The very option you are looking at other than RED probably would not be an option for you right now without RED's spark. Love us, hate us, fine. But at least have some respect for us...
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Brent,
I understand what you are saying, but I was still caught it a situation that was problematic and frustrating. I value very highly the concept of respect and I want that respect to extend both ways. I have written up a comprehensive outline of my experience and I will send it to you via PM, so that you can look into it at your convienience.
Best,
Adam
 
Look at it this way, if Jarred had done half and half instead of one month Scarlet-W, one month Raven they'd get less done in total. Meaning if you don't have your camera by the end of May now, you probably wouldn't have had it by the end of May any other way either, because both lines would have come shorter. Well except for the case where they ignore all other orders and produce your model until you get yours, but that'd be even less fair to somebody.

That it goes in batches means you can get a little lucky or unlucky with your timestamp. The last delivered Scarlet-W orders were probably a little lucky, the first Raven orders a little unlucky. Of course it pisses people off to be first in line for the next batch, but there's no way to be totally fair and efficient at the same time. Playing musical chairs with the production lines would only make the rest who wouldn't be in any of the upcoming batches wait even longer.

The only surprising thing is that Red is so open about it. They certainly could have said nothing and let people speculate that it's a supply/yield/qa/equipment issue that's out of their control. Heck, if they really wanted to pull the wool over our eyes they could just hold back a few Scarlets and let them trickle out over the coming month, I'm sure that's what many companies do when it's "in short supply" instead of a burst and then full stop.

Instead you get it straight from the top, you're on the back burner for a month because we put you there. Sometime I wonder if Jarred got a masochistic streak, because he didn't have to raise this shitstorm but did it anyway. I'm pretty sure that's not what I'd do, guess I'm not management material at Red. I'd never thought I'd see the day where I actually think using a few more weasel words would have been smarter, usually I hate them with a passion. I can see why people love him for his bluntness - and occassionally hate him for it too.
 
Adam Becker said:
Brent,
I understand what you are saying, but I was still caught it a situation that was problematic and frustrating. I value very highly the concept of respect and I want that respect to extend both ways. I have written up a comprehensive outline of my experience and I will send it to you via PM, so that you can look into it at your convienience.
Best,
Adam
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Thanks, Adam, now we are making some forward progress. I will review your PM and discuss internally then get back to you.
 
When should i expect the allocation on a 12 November timestamp? :) just wondering!
 
Chris Luker said:
For what? A Raven, Scarlet W, Weapon MG? Package or body?

I don't think even the great Brent knows what time frame you are looking at. :(
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I'm sure it's just a syntax thing, but I assume you meant to say "Brent the Great." '-)
 
Chris Luker said:
For what? A Raven, Scarlet W, Weapon MG? Package or body?

I don't think even the great Brent knows what time frame you are looking at. :(
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A RAVEN brain sorry ;) ... Brent knows everything! ah :bath:
 
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