Magic lantern... Dude.

[David W. Jones]

I stand behind the notion that a DSLR has no advantages at all other than low cost, simply just none, and that in a non-amateur production, the acquisition camera is very the last thing you should cut corners on.

I'll have to remember to take this advice to heart the next time someone suggests mounting a full size Alexa to a solder's helmet. hmy:

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I'll have to remember to take this advice to heart the next time someone suggests mounting a full size Alexa to a solder's helmet. hmy:

Well... Mounting a DSLR there, won't make much good either.

A gopro OTOH....

 

[David W. Jones]

Well... Mounting a DSLR there, won't make much good either.

A gopro OTOH....

Here is one approach.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Here is one approach.

I was thinking practically from the jello I have tried to salvage from shots like that.
Not weight and mounting options. Seen them, done that...

 

[jake blackstone]

Ok, I just downloaded the RAW file from this video https://vimeo.com/66480704, transcoded it to DPX and opened it in Resolve and WOW!. I pushed the image around a bit, pulled some keys and unscientifically speaking the image acts just like normal RAW acquired image. It doesn't fall apart, like any garden verity H264 image from 5D does and the key is clean and easily extracted. Seriously, this is great stuff. It's a brand new camera now. I'm sold...

 

[Mike P.]

I can't imagine how much better a proper, non-bined, full frame downscale would look... Seriously, someone make a CF-to-SATA adapter and lets get this show on the road.

EDIT: And Rob, if you actually live by what you say, how in the heck did you ever buy into RED? Especially earlier on when it was essentially a working beta camera? Seriously, someone who 'doesn't skimp on the acquisition camera' would never have bought anything other than Sony or Arri, and yet here we are. Two things are likely happening as we speak; the bugs are being squashed faster than most corps could do and a decent recording solution is likely being looked in to (potentially allowing up to FF35 5.2k RAW from a $3k DSLR). The trick is if it'll happen before Canon shuts doors or someone releases a product that does the same thing in a similar price range. Given how fast BM is doing their thing, it could very well be the latter.

 

[paulherrin]

All of the clips are 1:1 crops, right?... 1920x720?

it's not all 1:1, though there is a 1:1 sensor mode - i would assume (wide-angle stuff) a lot of what we're seeing is internal scaling, full-frame sensor to 1920

 

[Matt W.]

it's not all 1:1, though there is a 1:1 sensor mode - i would assume (wide-angle stuff) a lot of what we're seeing is internal scaling, full-frame sensor to 1920

It appears that the 5D (uniquely among dSLRs) does 3x3 pixel binning to produce a 1920X1080 raw signal from which its video is debayered and transcoded to h264... this hack is intercepting the signal before it's debayered I think? So it's full frame full sensor readout raw (and not even sraw), but not full resolution.

It looks sharp but it's still nowhere near as sharp as "real" cinema cameras, for instance. The jello is gnarly as ever. Grain pattern is chunky and not nice. I think there's a 3k crop mode that's experimental and a 1920X1280 mode that works with super fast cards, but I feel like we won't get much better than this from the Mark III. 83MB/sec is pretty heavy, though.

 

[Mike P.]

OHh, kay... that's why it's so sharp. I thought it was a straight 1920x720p 1:1 crop... but it's actually 22mp @ 1080p (binned, not skipped?) Better amend my previous post to avoid confusion.

If different media could be used (SSDs) that write fast enough, wouldn't 1:1 FF35 be possible though? I read that 2.5k should work, but that 3k+ mode was being limited by CF write speeds. I figured that was the only thing limiting the higher resolution raw data dump as well (as in, it's always being updated regardless of the record mode you're using, but there's nothing that can write fast enough to collect the data without causing lock-ups and frame drops.)

In either case (and jello-cam aside), it's an insane improvement.

 

[Matt W.]

It's a full HD raw signal but remember every other camera over samples so it's more like an hv30 than a c300 in terms of sharpness. Think 2k crop on the red with the sharpest 16mm lens but shallow depth of field. Not as sharp as a true cinema camera. Bayer is not 100% efficient but ACR beats the pants off the internal processing. The subjective look is really special all the same. Amazing color and fun to shoot FF. I like it.

 

[Adam Johnson]

I call BS. In this day in age wtf actually designates a "true cinema camera?!" I am getting sick of the term because everything is being called a digital cinema camera nowadays. Plain and simple the ML software produces a bad ass mother effing 1080p RAW image off a full frame 5D III. enough said, this is spectacular and a game changer in the indie realm for sure. Anyone that says DSLR cameras are not being used professionally are either stuck up or in denial. I have shot countless professional spots, network reality TV, documentaries, etc. on the 7D and 5D.

Now don't get me wrong. I do believe using ML software on a paid client gig is risky business and something I would never risk, but for certain niche projects it can be HUGE.

And please note that this is coming from a guy who has never even used ML on any of his DSLR cameras. ever. And I'm a RED owner and user since 09. ;-)

Not as sharp as a true cinema camera[/COLOR].

 

[paulherrin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9wacQVM0Go

 

[Bob Minervini]

Ok, who is going to be the brave one out there to make a comparison test, epic vs canon 5dmkIIIraw? one vs alexa would also go, to start with.

If I had easy access to all of them I would. Nothing scientific, just a window and a doll, something like that. Short clips to download too.

I bet there are a couple of people out there who already did and are scared of hurting some feelings.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

It's a full HD raw signal but remember every other camera over samples so it's more like an hv30 than a c300 in terms of sharpness. Think 2k crop on the red with the sharpest 16mm lens but shallow depth of field. Not as sharp as a true cinema camera. Bayer is not 100% efficient but ACR beats the pants off the internal processing. The subjective look is really special all the same. Amazing color and fun to shoot FF. I like it.

But- Line-skipped sharpness is not the same as REAL sharpness, it is a higly artifacty, not really accurate representation of what was seen by the lens. Skin for example looks weird (that awful maganfied pores 5D video look) .

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

I call BS. In this day in age wtf actually designates a "true cinema camera?!" I am getting sick of the term because everything is being called a digital cinema camera nowadays. Plain and simple the ML software produces a bad ass mother effing 1080p RAW image off a full frame 5D III. enough said, this is spectacular and a game changer in the indie realm for sure. Anyone that says DSLR cameras are not being used professionally are either stuck up or in denial. I have shot countless professional spots, network reality TV, documentaries, etc. on the 7D and 5D.

Now don't get me wrong. I do believe using ML software on a paid client gig is risky business and something I would never risk, but for certain niche projects it can be HUGE.

And please note that this is coming from a guy who has never even used ML on any of his DSLR cameras. ever. And I'm a RED owner and user since 09. ;-)

It's not really a game changer. No serious client will want a hacked 5D on a high-budget set, but if they have no money, on projects where basically no one makes real money (i.e. prosumer projects) they will embrace it. DSLRs are used almost exclusively on no-money gigs, and this will likely not change, not even a tiny bit. If your clients are crappy exploitive losers with no money, then you can rejoice (but rather than rejoicing, I suggest you instead get angry and charge more or find better gigs) , otherwise life has not changed.

If you own a Red, then why would you use a MKIII for video at all?

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Ok, who is going to be the brave one out there to make a comparison test, epic vs canon 5dmkIIIraw? one vs alexa would also go, to start with.

If I had easy access to all of them I would. Nothing scientific, just a window and a doll, something like that. Short clips to download too.

I bet there are a couple of people out there who already did and are scared of hurting some feelings.

I will try to do that with skin textures. I am not scared of hurting anybody's feelings.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Ok, who is going to be the brave one out there to make a comparison test, epic vs canon 5dmkIIIraw?

I can see what I can do as soon as I can find a Dramamine here in Japan...

People need to wake up. Sure the picture looks good, but even if you ignore all the other issues - the extreme jello of the unprocessed RAW data simply delegates this to the experimental department. Not to paid jobs. Not even free jobs. You are far better of shooting those without the ML. And the jello is not something ML can fix, as it is dealt with by a circuity that the ML bypasses...

You want to compare it to something - go compare it to BMDC, or even GoPro. There is no point comparing Lada with Audi Quattro...

Stills on the other hand... But that what 5D is after all. An amazing still camera, that allows you to capture some decent HD video when you need it once in a while...

:sifone: Peter

 

[Emanuel A.]

Well, if you're just playing around and learning, then a 7D is fine, but on pro jobs, taking risks with the camera makes no sense to me.

I also don't get this emotional connection you talk about. I'm connected to how I shoot, to what I know, to the images I make. These things are all the same whether I rent or buy. Yes we own an Epic, but we bought it as an investment and it turned out to be a bad investment - we should have rented instead.

I would never tell a friend to buy an expensive camera anymore, prices are falling way too fast - just rent something good when you need it, and you'll have way more money in your pocket at the end of the year.

To those who think you don;t need film school, think again. A good agency in L.A., a work-permit in a country other than your own, even a bank loan to buy gear, forget all that unless you have a University degree from a reputable school - plus you learn things in school you don't learn just by doing. A set won't teach you film theory or history, won't put you in a classroom full of people just as passionate as you for four years.

I have never met anyone writing or directing on more than shoestring budgets who did not have a University degree - just never. Do you think your heroes have high-school only? Nobody anyone has ever heard of is not a grad from a good film school.

The merit of good points you make can even address my academic curricula for sure : ) so nothing to object on your post personally speaking, but something you're forgetting here... there is a guy over these boards, hero of all of us ; ) who went a way further than high school but quit of College to set up a billion dollars business able to teach any lecturer in the field, so...

 

[Adam Johnson]

Wow. You just made a ton of assumptions about me and my work. Nice move!

Not that it is any of your business but I make great money whether it be with my RED or DSLR in hand. I recently shot on several lucrative gigs including on a feature length documentary with my 7D (the creators won an academy award for best doc last year) and neither of us were about to shoot it with my RED ONE MX. So save me and everyone else the ignorant BS you are spewing through your posts.

Put it this way. I have seen churches that have RED Ones, Epics, etc. and no matter the tech they always seem to create crap material. Same goes for less talented individuals. no matter what you put in their hand its never good.

Honestly, it doesn't always matter what pro camera you use. It's all about the DP/ Operator and creative minds behind the scenes. Regardless how you do things...this is how it works in the real world. Horses for courses.

So please quit acting like you know everything and stop trolling this thread. You are creating lots of negative noise.

It's not really a game changer. No serious client will want a hacked 5D on a high-budget set, but if they have no money, on projects where basically no one makes real money (i.e. prosumer projects) they will embrace it. DSLRs are used almost exclusively on no-money gigs, and this will likely not change, not even a tiny bit. If your clients are crappy exploitive losers with no money, then you can rejoice (but rather than rejoicing, I suggest you instead get angry and charge more or find better gigs) , otherwise life has not changed.

If you own a Red, then why would you use a MKIII for video at all?

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

The merit of good points you make can even address my academic curricula for sure : ) so nothing to object on your post personally speaking, but something you're forgetting here... there is a guy over these boards, hero of all of us ; ) who went a way further than high school but quit of College to set up a billion dollars business able to teach any lecturer in the field, so...

That's fine, but for every Jim Jannard there are 200 000 guys who did the same thing now serving Lattes, whereas most of the people I went to University with have at least reasonable (ish) jobs related to film and/or communications.